Thank you Mike for the explanations, much clearer now. For scoring of course it is your decision what is default. Could I suggest a note on the website about this to alert folks who are not used to it and think the engine has a bug like I did when I first ran it.MikeB wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:01 pmExcelled questions. - first play by Elo is nps based - you should use the the uci sleep option when using any weakening level as the program will move instantly without it checked. There is no randomization except at the weakest levels. Why? Well Stockfish is so strong that even at 50 nps it plays in the 1500 to 1600 range (FIDE Elo with CCRL that’s about 1200) - the only way to get it below that Elo is to introduce randomness.JohnS wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:16 amExcellent work Mike!
Can you please clarify the use of adaptive, play by Elo and variety? Do adaptive and play by ELo override the strength setting? Can they be used together (does this make any sense) or is it one or the other?
What does variety do and how does it interact with adaptive and play by ELo?
Can you provide examples of typical uci settings for lower strength options?
By the way, Leela scoring is now the default and it initially confused me because a score of +50 in the initial position looked crazy (you finally proved chess is a forced win for White ). I personally think centipawns should be the default as that is what most of us are used to.
Many thanks for a great engine.
Variety play introduces randomness across the entire Elo spectrum. It costs about 300 Elo. To make up for that ,when it is used with play by Elo , I increase the nps, so it will still play close the Elo selected.
Adaptive play also introduces variety but does it differently. The code used here is from “EasyPlay”. For most people it will have range of playing of about 300 Elo as it will purposely throw you a bone when it gets ahead. Like variety play , the nps is increased under the hood , to keep the Elo close to what you selected.
You can tell when an adaptive play move is used , as the move played will not be in sync with the pv. So when you see that , that’s your chance to get back in the game. ;>)
With variety play , the pv will be in sync with the pv. They both can be used together and the play will be slight weaker than using one or the other - although the nps is raised even higher.
At higher levels of play , the adaptive play has even a wider range of playing - if you play at Elo 2900 with adaptive play , it will play close to Crafty. With a weaker opponent it could play as low 2300 to 2400 (CCRL rating), Variety play does not have a plying range capability - it plays at one level, just weaker than before.
On the LC0 scoring % , that is set to my preference, it’s what I use for all my analysis for my games and I am my number one customer ;> ) - for me that is more useful and intuitive than centipawn as it provides you the expected outcome of the game which centipawn does not provide. Keep in mind , the internal scoring mechanism is still the same - it is just converted using a formula. But I recognize that I am in the minority so there is a toggle to switch it back to centipawn scoring and with most good GUIs , one can make that change persistent. One thing I like about it is that it always real clear that are you looking at the game from my the side to move viewpoint so that box should be checked on your GUI - not from Black or white side viewpoint.
It’s one of those things, the more you use it , the more you appreciate it. Now if somebody has maintained a record of thousands and thousands of positions that they scored from a centipawn vantage point - well obviously it will not be for them.
But for actually playing games or doing analysis for a correspondence game - I like it better. I focused a lot harder on games where I am under 50% ;>).
It's here ...Honey X6
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Re: It's here ...Honey X6
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Re: It's here ...Honey X6
JohnS wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:06 am <huge snip>
Thank you Mike for the explanations, much clearer now. For scoring of course it is your decision what is default. Could I suggest a note on the website about this to alert folks who are not used to it and think the engine has a bug like I did when I first ran it.
Good point, will do thanks!
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Re: It's here ...Honey X6
Apparently a "color" flag is now causing issues on some OS if one uses it as makefile defined ( 'features' is another prohibited defined own some OS) will update the source shortly. There's one or two more add'l items to fix as well related to compiling.
Last edited by MikeB on Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It's here ...Honey X6
Here is a link to the version I made:
It has a few more UCI fields and an evaluation tweak that takes mobility into account.
It also logs evaluation data to disk by default (so I can post process it and load it into my SQL database), so people will probably want to turn that off in the UCI settings if they want to try it.
I called it polygon {many-sided} because it uses all of the features except it does not have the blue stuff yet.
Thanks for your efforts on this project. I find it very useful.
It has a few more UCI fields and an evaluation tweak that takes mobility into account.
It also logs evaluation data to disk by default (so I can post process it and load it into my SQL database), so people will probably want to turn that off in the UCI settings if they want to try it.
I called it polygon {many-sided} because it uses all of the features except it does not have the blue stuff yet.
Thanks for your efforts on this project. I find it very useful.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
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Re: It's here ...Honey X6
Correction , using adaptive play at FULL STRENGTH will play close to Crafty not the FIDE Elo 2900 level. Just happened to see that and I knew it wasn't rightMikeB wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:01 pm <huge snip>
At higher levels of play , the adaptive play has even a wider range of playing - if you play at Elo 2900 with adaptive play , it will play close to Crafty. With a weaker opponent it could play as low 2300 to 2400 (CCRL rating), Variety play does not have a plying range capability - it plays at one level, just weaker than before.
Code: Select all
Rank Name Rating Δ + - # Σ Σ% W L D W% =% OppR
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1 Crafty-25.3 1455 0.0 59 59 100 51.5 51.5 40 37 23 40.0 23.0 1445
2 Honey-FIDE-3500a 1445 9.1 59 59 100 48.5 48.5 37 40 23 37.0 23.0 1455
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Re: It's here ...Honey X6
Fine just for fun result s- just 20 positions chosen at random using 'jot'.
'Bluefish' is pretty cool, it is as tough as nails and it plays some pretty interesting chess I would definitely check out that engine, some pretty nice coding by Eelco de Groot.
All 1120 games in pgn format:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rzcbsqyqcv9wu ... n.zip?dl=0
Note: Grab it now, if you think you might want it. it won't be here forever.
But with 4 mi and 2 sec tc on single core , there won't be much gold.
'Bluefish' is pretty cool, it is as tough as nails and it plays some pretty interesting chess I would definitely check out that engine, some pretty nice coding by Eelco de Groot.
Code: Select all
Time to complete: 19:29:36
20 rounds and 1120 games completed...
Time control: 240 + 2.0000 seconds
Threads = 1
Hash = 256
Date: 10/09/19 : 19:12:17
Rank Name Rating Δ + - # Σ Σ% W L D W% =% OppR
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1 Honey X6 3126 0.0 18 18 280 152.5 54.5 46 21 213 16.4 76.1 3096
2 Bluefish-1008 3123 2.4 18 18 280 151.0 53.9 49 27 204 17.5 72.9 3097
3 Blue-Honey-X6 3115 8.5 18 18 280 147.0 52.5 41 27 212 14.6 75.7 3098
4 Stockfish-1008 3107 7.6 18 18 280 143.5 51.2 36 29 215 12.9 76.8 3099
5 Bluefish-fd-1008 3090 17.3 18 18 280 135.5 48.4 30 39 211 10.7 75.4 3101
6 Blue-Honey-fd-X6 3084 6.3 18 18 280 132.0 47.1 17 33 230 6.1 82.1 3102
7 Honey-fd-X6 3078 5.6 18 18 280 129.5 46.2 22 43 215 7.9 76.8 3103
8 Stockfish-fd-1008 3077 0.7 18 18 280 129.0 46.1 16 38 226 5.7 80.7 3103
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/rzcbsqyqcv9wu ... n.zip?dl=0
Note: Grab it now, if you think you might want it. it won't be here forever.
But with 4 mi and 2 sec tc on single core , there won't be much gold.
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Re: It's here ...Honey X6
Updated file at the same location, last version did not log the EPD position:Dann Corbit wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:35 am Here is a link to the version I made:
It has a few more UCI fields and an evaluation tweak that takes mobility into account.
It also logs evaluation data to disk by default (so I can post process it and load it into my SQL database), so people will probably want to turn that off in the UCI settings if they want to try it.
I called it polygon {many-sided} because it uses all of the features except it does not have the blue stuff yet.
Thanks for your efforts on this project. I find it very useful.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
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Re: It's here ...Honey X6
When i run bench, the commandLine Window close immedately after the bench endet.
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Re: It's here ...Honey X6
Yes, I have a UCI option for that.
It looks like this:
setoption name Exit After Bench value false
Set it to false if you do not want it to exit.
Typically, I will have a bunch of machines running a bench command against various files of EPD positions (logging the data to disk).
When the calculation is complete, the executable sits there hogging the entire memory for the machine. Unless I exit. So I exit.
But you can change the behavior by setting "Exit After Bench" to false.
I guess you will also want to set "Write Search Log" to false. Otherwise, data will be written to a disk file while the positions are being analyzed.
This is also true for game play (not just EPD analysis).
It looks like this:
setoption name Exit After Bench value false
Set it to false if you do not want it to exit.
Typically, I will have a bunch of machines running a bench command against various files of EPD positions (logging the data to disk).
When the calculation is complete, the executable sits there hogging the entire memory for the machine. Unless I exit. So I exit.
But you can change the behavior by setting "Exit After Bench" to false.
I guess you will also want to set "Write Search Log" to false. Otherwise, data will be written to a disk file while the positions are being analyzed.
This is also true for game play (not just EPD analysis).
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
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Re: It's here ...Honey X6
come and get it ... all flavors now available, scroll to the bottom for the binaries...MikeB wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:42 pm well if you have a macOS computer anyway , or if you can compile your own
other OS flavors will be released upon receipt.
all versions have all bell and whistles, including play by FIDE Elo (or CCRL Elo) and improved adaptive and variety play
FD versions have 'fortress detection' code written Joe Ellis.
Bluefish and Blue-Honey versions have Bluefish evaluation code written by Eelco de Groot.
https://github.com/MichaelB7/Stockfish/releases/tag/X6
that's right - 8 stockfish derivative flavors , including
current-dev-Stockfish
current-dev-Stockfish-FD
Honey X6
Honey-FD
Blue-Honey
Blue-Honey-FD
Bluefish
BlueFish-FD
there's build script in the src folder, on my machine it takes 62 seconds to build all 8 flavors, just over two minutes for PGO flavors ( all macOS versions were PGO optimized)
why "X" ? , it signifies that this version is related to Stockfish 10 and development code added since the release of Stockfish 10.
have fun!
https://github.com/MichaelB7/Stockfish/releases/tag/X6
macSO users should re-download ( also bmi2 was added)
Also, please be sure to thank Alan Cooper and Lucas Monge for all their work in making the exe's available for you!