recent article on alphazero ... 12/11/2017 ...

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pilgrimdan
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recent article on alphazero ... 12/11/2017 ...

Post by pilgrimdan »

https://medium.com/@josecamachocollados ... 66ae1c84f2

Jose Camacho Collados
Mathematician, AI/NLP researcher and chess International Master.

Is AlphaZero really a scientific breakthrough in AI?
Dirt
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Re: recent article on alphazero ... 12/11/2017 ...

Post by Dirt »

Again, Deepmind didn't try to make the best chess program possible. They were trying to show that a neural network worked better than traditional methods. Since they hadn't put variable thinking time into Alphazero they tested both programs with fixed thinking time. This only showed superiority at fixed thinking time; the case of variable thinking time is still open.
Deasil is the right way to go.
shrapnel
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Re: recent article on alphazero ... 12/11/2017 ...

Post by shrapnel »

Unfortunately, since Alphazero has not been commercialized nor has more information been released, the voices of its detractors will grow only stronger.
Sad, because computer chess players were given a glimpse of the Future ( A Ferrari ! ) and now we are forced to play with obsolete chess engines ( Wooden Bullock Carts !).
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shrapnel
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Re: recent article on alphazero ... 12/11/2017 ...

Post by shrapnel »

Dirt wrote:Again, Deepmind didn't try to make the best chess program possible. They were trying to show that a neural network worked better than traditional methods. Since they hadn't put variable thinking time into Alphazero they tested both programs with fixed thinking time. This only showed superiority at fixed thinking time; the case of variable thinking time is still open.
That is essentially, correct.
Unfortunately, the Conspiracy Theorists here will put another spin to it.
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FWCC
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Re: recent article on alphazero ... 12/11/2017 ...

Post by FWCC »

Alpha Zero is revolutionary I think.I will email them to ask if they will go commercial.Of course they probably are not as keen into chess as we are.Just think ,this thing destroys Stockfish and prob the current versions also.The possibilities are endless.TAL WAS CORRECT. Really I hope they go commercial or at least open source.
duncan
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Re: recent article on alphazero ... 12/11/2017 ...

Post by duncan »

pilgrimdan wrote:https://medium.com/@josecamachocollados ... 66ae1c84f2

Jose Camacho Collados
Mathematician, AI/NLP researcher and chess International Master.

Is AlphaZero really a scientific breakthrough in AI?
from the link: seems rather unlikely.

"This improvement on computing power paves the way for the development of newer algorithms, and probably in a few years a game like chess could be almost solved by heavily relying on brute force."
Rodolfo Leoni
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Re: recent article on alphazero ... 12/11/2017 ...

Post by Rodolfo Leoni »

shrapnel wrote:Unfortunately, since Alphazero has not been commercialized nor has more information been released, the voices of its detractors will grow only stronger.
Sad, because computer chess players were given a glimpse of the Future ( A Ferrari ! ) and now we are forced to play with obsolete chess engines ( Wooden Bullock Carts !).
Being not a detractor, I really think hardware is a breakthrough. I'm not sure about AlphaZero, tough. It could become like one of the old videogames in our C64 home computers, if compared to an engine by top programmers (when/if hardware will be available).

If we think at self-learning procedure and philosophy, Romichess already performed such a task more than 10 years ago. Give Romi features to a top engine, let it train both vs himself and a group of top opponents for enough games, then you'll get the same effect. With all the limits of conventional technology, of course.

The strenght difference of AlphaZero could depend only because of hardware, IMO. But I'll be very curious to see if Deep Mind decides to let it participate to WCCC, to legitimate its superiority. :wink:
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hgm
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Re: recent article on alphazero ... 12/11/2017 ...

Post by hgm »

It seems a complete bullshit paper...
Damir
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Re: recent article on alphazero ... 12/11/2017 ...

Post by Damir »

Everything shrapnel says is bullshit. :) :)
shrapnel
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Re: recent article on alphazero ... 12/11/2017 ...

Post by shrapnel »

FWCC wrote:Alpha Zero is revolutionary I think.I will email them to ask if they will go commercial.Of course they probably are not as keen into chess as we are.Just think ,this thing destroys Stockfish and prob the current versions also.The possibilities are endless.TAL WAS CORRECT. Really I hope they go commercial or at least open source.
Do let us know if they reply.
Indeed, Tal was correct ! AlphaZero, with its almost human style, has brought back some Romance and Adventurism in Chess and shown that Chess can still be played that way, at the highest level.
It seems a complete bullshit paper...
I thought so too, despite the author's impressive qualifications.
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