No chance

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

Which position should I consider first, this one, or the one with Louis and Smyslov?

There is one position only. The one you gave from the beginning:
[d]r4rk1/1b2bp1p/1q2p1p1/3pPnP1/p1pP2Q1/PpP1PN1R/1P5P/R1BB3K w - - 0 17

This position we are trying to see if white is winning as per your statements of easy win for white. If indeed moves like 22.Qf6+ sacrificing the Queen, are excellent and amazing one's winning for white, or if they are just a draw.

So we try to find the best possible continuation for black.
So we ended up after 17. Bd2 Rab8 18. Be2 Bc6 19. Be1 Nxe3 20. Qf4 Nc2 21. Rd1 Kg7 22. Qf6+ Bxf6 23. gxf6+ Kg8 24. Ng5 h6 25. Rxh6 Nxa3 26. Bf2 Qa5
To the position:
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/2b1pPpR/q2pP1N1/p1pP4/npP5/1P2BB1P/3R3K w - - 0 27

Where you said white wins. How? I ask again.
I can't seem to find a clear win for white.

Obvious first moves for white you might want to consider are Rg1 (which I think is no good), Rh3, and Be1 (which I preferred initially).

•So we have 27.Rg1 Qxc3! and now how white wins?
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/2b1pPpR/3pP1N1/p1pP4/npq5/1P2BB1P/6RK w - - 0 28


•So we have 27.Be1 Nc2 and now how white wins?
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/2b1pPpR/q2pP1N1/p1pP4/1pP5/1Pn1B2P/3RB2K w - - 0 28


•So we have 27.Rh3! Nb5! 28.Rg1 Nd6 and now how white wins?
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/2bnpPp1/q2pP1N1/p1pP4/1pP4R/1P2BB1P/6RK w - - 0 29

I really have the desire not to answer you at all.

Did you read Alexander Schmidt's comment?

Mate in 6 after Bd2 instead of Bf2.

Bf2 also wins, but slower.

If Milos can retract, why should not I be able to also do so?

George, you really disappoint me, you ask me many questions again, instead of providing us with in-depth analysis, if you are really interested in the position.

[Alexander Schmidt]

[d] 1r3rk1/5p1R/1qb1pPp1/3pP1N1/p1pP4/PpP5/1P2B2P/3nB2K w - -

someone please clear this up for me, where is the Lyudmil mate in 8 instead of a draw?
kgburcham

White wins by moving the bishop to g7.

[George Tsavdaris]

You should really care, because that is called cheating, but a real one, not like the ones often invoked on that forum.

I don't even know what you are talking about.
You have said the original position is a win for white.
That's what we are trying to figure out here. So we should try to find out assuming best play by black and not by inferior play like 25...Rb7?

When I look now at the position (as I also can go back), an easier win for white after Na3 is Bd2 instead of Bf2:

[d]1r3rk1/5p2/1qb1pPpR/3pP1N1/p1pP4/npP5/1P1BB2P/3R3K b - - 0 2
White threatens quick mate with Nd4, Rh4, Bh6-g7 and Rh8, which seems unavoidable.

After 26.Bd2 instead of Bf2 black whould play 26...Nc2 and then white has what? I see nothing for him.
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/1qb1pPpR/3pP1N1/p1pP4/1pP5/1PnBB2P/3R3K w - - 0 27

But please tell me, when are you going to take your fair share of the work, and provide us with your valuable refutation of the moves I suggested?

Because in this way you simply expect input, but contribute nothing.
I want to see your contribution.

But i'm not the one that is claiming that white wins here.
The best continuation i find for white leads to an unclear "endgame" where white may even lose, i don't know. But fact is his attack on the black's King is stopped.
So because you said from the beginning the opposite i just ask you to play on the game and see where this will lead and if you know any better response move that i've found.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

[d] 1r3rk1/5p1R/1qb1pPp1/3pP1N1/p1pP4/PpP5/1P2B2P/3nB2K w - -

someone please clear this up for me, where is the Lyudmil mate in 8 instead of a draw?
kgburcham

White wins by moving the bishop to g7.

Thanks Alexander, precisely.

[George Tsavdaris]

But Bf2 is not by Lyudmil. Replace Bf2 by Bd2:

[d]1r3rk1/5p2/2b1pPpR/q2pP1N1/p1pP4/npP5/1P1BB2P/3R3K w - - 6 29

Mate in 6

No.
26...Qa5 was in case white played 26.Bf2.

In case he chooses 26.Bd2 the right answer is 26...Nc2
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/1qb1pPpR/3pP1N1/p1pP4/1pP5/1PnBB2P/3R3K w - - 0 27

So now what?




**
also don't tell me Bf2 was not from Lyudmil.
Look here.....

On Ne3, Rd2 Nf5 Rh7, followed by Bg4 wins, while on Na3 - same Bf2.


He initially proposed 26.Bf2 on 25...Nxa3.

[kgburcham]

Do you know what a "hope" position is?

I am trying to prove if this is or is not a "hope" position.
can someone post the simple line of the mate in 8 that has been claimed from this position?

[d] 1r3r2/4bpkp/1qb1pQp1/3pP1P1/p1pP4/PpP2N1R/1Pn1B2P/3RB2K b - -

[Alexander Schmidt]

After 26.Bd2 instead of Bf2 black whould play 26...Nc2 and then white has what? I see nothing for him.
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/1qb1pPpR/3pP1N1/p1pP4/1pP5/1PnBB2P/3R3K w - - 0 27

Nf3
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/1qb1pPpR/3pP3/p1pP4/1pP2N2/1PnBB2P/3R3K b - - 1 27

[Alexander Schmidt]

Do you know what a "hope" position is?

I am trying to prove if this is or is not a "hope" position.
can someone post the simple line of the mate in 8 that has been claimed from this position?

[d] 1r3r2/4bpkp/1qb1pQp1/3pP1P1/p1pP4/PpP2N1R/1Pn1B2P/3RB2K b - -

It's not a mate in 8, but likely a win.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

You should really care, because that is called cheating, but a real one, not like the ones often invoked on that forum.

I don't even know what you are talking about.
You have said the original position is a win for white.
That's what we are trying to figure out here. So we should try to find out assuming best play by black and not by inferior play like 25...Rb7?

When I look now at the position (as I also can go back), an easier win for white after Na3 is Bd2 instead of Bf2:

[d]1r3rk1/5p2/1qb1pPpR/3pP1N1/p1pP4/npP5/1P1BB2P/3R3K b - - 0 2
White threatens quick mate with Nd4, Rh4, Bh6-g7 and Rh8, which seems unavoidable.

After 26.Bd2 instead of Bf2 black whould play 26...Nc2 and then white has what? I see nothing for him.
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/1qb1pPpR/3pP1N1/p1pP4/1pP5/1PnBB2P/3R3K w - - 0 27

But please tell me, when are you going to take your fair share of the work, and provide us with your valuable refutation of the moves I suggested?

Because in this way you simply expect input, but contribute nothing.
I want to see your contribution.

But i'm not the one that is claiming that white wins here.
The best continuation i find for white leads to an unclear "endgame" where white may even lose, i don't know. But fact is his attack on the black's King is stopped.
So because you said from the beginning the opposite i just ask you to play on the game and see where this will lead and if you know any better response move that i've found.

[d][d]1r3rk1/5p2/1qb1pPpR/3pP1N1/p1pP4/1pP5/1PnBB2P/3R3K w - - 0 27

I told you, Nf3, Rh4, Bh6-g7, Rh8 mate.

You question white's advantage, so the burden of proof is with you.

[kgburcham]

Do you know what a "hope" position is?

I am trying to prove if this is or is not a "hope" position.
can someone post the simple line of the mate in 8 that has been claimed from this position?

[d] 1r3r2/4bpkp/1qb1pQp1/3pP1P1/p1pP4/PpP2N1R/1Pn1B2P/3RB2K b - -

It's not a mate in 8, but likely a win.

what? it has been said numerous times that this is a simple mate in this thread. mate in 8. please post the mate line with a starting position.