Similarity tests

[Sedat Canbaz]

Btw, What makes me really sad, Unfortunately some testers (including Frank) are become non-neutral testers I dislike such things....

For examples, Frank prefers to test the sons (Fire+Critter), but not allowing the mother (Rybka) Another example, He prefer to test the old Shredder, but in the same time he is not allowing the rest old ones

Well, some prefer strength over originality, even CEGT and CCRL do. Others don't, you, CSVN and SSDF as far as I can tell. Anno 2014 the CC community (as a whole) is best served this way, two sides of the coin.

Yes I know...

But I wonder...Frank to which group belongs ?))

As far as I know there is no such group,
And we can call it Frank's Non-Neutral Rating !)


Best,
Sedat

[Henk]

I like to see a tournament of real original engines. The ones that even don't use standard algorithms like alpha beta, PVS, MTD-f. Maybe call it the alternatives tournament or the experimentalists.

[Sedat Canbaz]

I like to see a tournament of real original engines. The ones that even don't use standard algorithms like alpha beta, PVS, MTD-f. Maybe call it the alternatives tournament or the experimentalists.

+100

[kranium]

Btw, What makes me really sad, Unfortunately some testers (including Frank) are become non-neutral testers I dislike such things....

For examples, Frank prefers to test the sons (Fire+Critter), but not allowing the mother (Rybka) Another example, He prefer to test the old Shredder, but in the same time he is not allowing the rest old ones

Well, some prefer strength over originality, even CEGT and CCRL do. Others don't, you, CSVN and SSDF as far as I can tell. Anno 2014 the CC community (as a whole) is best served this way, two sides of the coin.

Yes I know...

But I wonder...Frank to which group belongs ?))

As far as I know there is no such group,
And we can call it Frank's Non-Neutral Rating !)


Best,
Sedat

Sedat,

I'm beginning to realize this thread is not primarily about sim tool, it appears to be more about Rybka and perceived injustices...
I can almost taste your bitterness in that regard

But, criticizing Frank for not including Rybka is counterproductive and unfair IMO
All testers and rating lists (and individual users as well) have a right to exercise their opinion
and it would be nice if they could do that without being ridiculed

Frank obviously sees a different family hierarchy ie -> mother (Fruit)
and his decisions (as well as those by CCRL and CEGT, etc., or any user) concerning his rating list should be accepted instead of criticized

Better is: agree to disagree on these matters and simply move on
Everyone seriously needs to move on concerning Rybka IMO

Sincerely,
Norm

PS-
If the testers and rating lists would simply put derivatives in a separate list, it would really help
I believe a lot of the anger and animosity from 'original' authors would disappear

[Ralf Müller]

PS-
If the testers and rating lists would simply put derivatives in a separate list, it would really help
I believe a lot of the anger and animosity from 'original' authors would disappear

That's a very wise suggestion IMO

[Sedat Canbaz]

Hello Norman,

I think you missed my 1st posting too, see below please

Btw,
Many thanks to some engine experts (including you) that,
You like my new SCCT rules, that means a lot for me...

About your rest comments regarding this thread,
Firstly Frank started to criticize some of my used participants (Rybka+ Houdini)

Of course...,
Later I started to criticize regarding Critter + your engine ( Fire) about his testings...so we are draw ))

About Rybka vs Fruit,
I can not say Fruit is mother of Rybka, 400 Elo points difference, 48% similarity etc... maybe we can call Fruit as grand grand grand mother )))
But not real mother...we should open our eyes...I dislike such things

But however, after all,
Frank is one of my best chess friends...and it's all between us...
Don't worry...sometimes is good each other to be criticized!)
In this way...I believe we can improve our conditions in better way....


Best,
Sedat

Just my 2 cents over this issue,

I mean let's say I changed SCCT's current rule from 55 % to 60% limit and above
And plus I don't request no any +100 Elo improvement over based original engine....

Then I am afraid in that,
Mostly of the below engines should be definitely as SCCT top 20 participants
And only picking Naum or Fire or Critter...
Then there will be BIG double standard over the rest ones (I mean for the current below player's list)!!!

So...I have a question to all chess engine experts,
I mean for those who believes that the limit should be minimum 60 %
Is it good idea or not ???

Then I am afraid that almost all SCCT's Top 20 will be Fruitians/Rybkanians/Stockfishians !!!
That's why....SCCT's rule 55 % limitation + 100 Elo requesting is ideal ... !!!
Correct me please if I am wrong....

For example,
Here are a few ones (which mostly of them are between 55-59% comparing to Rybka):

Belka
Bouquet
BlackMamba
Critter
Cyclone xTreme
Equinox
Fritz (latest versions)
Fire
Heron
Houdini
Igorrit
IPPOLIT
Ivanhoe
LEOpard
Loop
Murka
Naum
Onno
RobboLito
Strelka
Tankist
Twinfish
Toga
Vitruvius

Note: only Houdini is different than all, and it should be counted as original work,
because R. Houdart was the 1 guy who managed to improve his engine much stronger than Rybka !!
Of course the authors of Stockfish,Komodo,Gull,Rybka are another great talents too
Actually all rest engine programmers who work mainly with own original ideas are another great talents too

And without to not mention this I cant,
Arasan seems to be the most original in top 20, my congratulations to Jon Dart !

Really that means a lot for me....

If anybody will say my view is wrong...its ok... no problem
Then I plan to participate with CM9 Gladiator too, but I will rename it to BabyMaster)))


And last,
I hope my current posting will be useful ....

[kranium]

Hello Norman,

I think you missed my 1st posting too, see below please

Btw,
Many thanks to some engine experts (including you) that,
You like my new SCCT rules, that means a lot for me...

About your rest comments regarding this thread,
Firstly Frank started to criticize some of my used participants (Rybka+ Houdini)

Of course...,
Later I started to criticize regarding Critter + your engine ( Fire) about his testings...so we are draw ))

About Rybka vs Fruit,
I can not say Fruit is mother of Rybka, 400 Elo points difference, 48% similarity etc... maybe we can call Fruit as grand grand grand mother )))
But not real mother...we should open our eyes...I dislike such things

But however, after all,
Frank is one of my best chess friends...and it's all between us...
Don't worry...sometimes is good each other to be criticized!)
In this way...I believe we can improve our conditions in better way....


Best,
Sedat

fair enough
+1

[Ralf Müller]

Sorry, if I bother you, but where can I get the Similarity Detector by Don Daily? The original link from komodochess.com doesn't work anymore.

[Modern Times]

PS-
If the testers and rating lists would simply put derivatives in a separate list, it would really help
I believe a lot of the anger and animosity from 'original' authors would disappear

And who determines what is a derivative and what isn't.... That is the problem. There is rarely any agreement on this.

[Sedat Canbaz]

PS-
If the testers and rating lists would simply put derivatives in a separate list, it would really help
I believe a lot of the anger and animosity from 'original' authors would disappear

And who determines what is a derivative and what isn't.... That is the problem. There is rarely any agreement on this.

Robert Hyatt!