The near future of computer chess

[lkaufman]

I guess for me the problem is that Ippolit has unknown authors, but Firebird and Ivanhoe and Houdini are upgraded Ippolits by different people. The author(s) of Ippolit should have the right to say which of these represents Ippolit, but since they remain anonymous and don't give their backing to any one of these, it's difficult to know which one to test. Currently the choice is to test the strongest one. I believe that if the author(s) of Ippolit made a statement that they wished to be represented by Ivanhoe rather than by Houdini, that would seal the deal. Perhaps you have a good point about Communists not believing in taking credit for individual effort. As for people not believing these guys really are Communists, I'm not one of them, except to note that Communism has pretty much been abandonned by almost all the world except perhaps Cuba and North Korea. But of course there still remain many individuals who favor Communism, so the Ippolit authors should be taken at their word on this point.

[lkaufman]

[quote="LaskosThe fact they keep their identity anonymous could be interpreted in flattering terms, at least this is how things are seen in most branches of arts or sciences when an important contribution is made. What world are you coming from? Police department? When you publish a work, do folks ask you for your birth certificate? And you can even contact them on their forum, if the condition to contact an anonymous author of an important work is stated anywhere.

IvanHoe is _not_ Houdini or Rybka, its status is as clean as Komodo's status, which we all know is clean. A proven cloner Vas Rajlich claimed that some parents of IvanHoe are clones of his engine. Frankly, is it enough for you? And IvanHoe is not "derived" from Ippos, it's the final, multi-core, multi-featured, state of the art Ippo. A supreme engine all-around, and an inspiration for many.

Kai[/quote]

I'm not talking about the issue of whether Ivanhoe/Ippolit were "clones" of Rybka. I'm talking about the question of whether the authors of Ippolit recognize IvanHoe as "the final...Ippo". If IvanHoe is by different people, don't we need a clear statement from the Ippo authors that IvanHoe represents them, as opposed to Houdini for example? Perhaps I have missed this, was there ever a public statement on the Ippo website that they accept Ivanhoe as the official final Ippo and not Houdini? If so then the case for rating Ivanhoe would be stronger.

[lkaufman]

[i quite 'naively' assumed that the CCRL (and CEGT/IPON) would behave in a mature professional manner, and would be motivated to test 'all legally available engines' in an objective and unbiased manner...
that means regardless of whether they 'liked' the author, free copies of commercial engines, the color of his skin, the author's history, if he was anonymous', etc., etc.
a very reasonable expectation...

my bad!

In my opinion, it would be quite correct for a testing organization to REFUSE to test a commercial engine that would not supply free copies to test. They should hardly be expected to pay money to help the sales of a commercial engine. I recommend that you drop the complaint about getting free copies, it makes you look silly. You have much better arguments than this one.

[kranium]

If IvanHoe is by different people, don't we need a clear statement from the Ippo authors that IvanHoe represents them, as opposed to Houdini for example? Perhaps I have missed this, was there ever a public statement on the Ippo website that they accept Ivanhoe as the official final Ippo and not Houdini? If so then the case for rating Ivanhoe would be stronger.

Larry-
I hope I can clarify, but quite frankly, i'm tiring of relaying this info:

There is only 1 IvanHoe...
the authors have just released a new version: 999946
the Linux tarball is available for download here:
www.ippolit.wikispaces.com

several people are compiling this native Linux code for Windows...
using both Microsoft VC ++ and Intel compilers.

these people include:
KLO (King Liveson)
www.open-chess.org
He generally releases only compiles of the original code from ippolit.wikispaces.com and operates an excellent FTP/http download site:
http://chess.cygnitec.com/engine/ivanhoe/

PeterPan and others
at the notorious Russian 'Immortal' chess website
have released many many dozens (hundreds? of compile/versions?)
please note:
these individuals generally only 'compile' the code released at ippolit.wikispace.com by the 'Decembrists'...
sometime they adjusting piece values...

my involvement has been from the very beginning (summer 2009)...not as compiler but as 'collaborating' Windows developer
the history of which is well documented:
www.chesslogik.com and immortalchess.net

when ippolit was 1st released (summer 2009), it was completely unusable on windows, (as well as unstable on Linux), and the code was written in a sort Italian/Albanian dialect
myself (with help from Sentinel), developed and released more than a dozen public betas for testing on Immortal, end of 2009
the final release was RoboLito 0.09 which remains today near the top of all lists, especially single CPU...

It is this version that corresponds exactly with Houdini 1.0

IvanHoe is the recent name/version of Ippolit/Robbolito/Iggorit chronology of ippolit.wikispaces.com releases...

the authors are (still):
Yakov Petrovich Golyadkin, Igor Igorovich Igoronov, Roberto Pescatore, Yusuf Ralf Weisskopf, Ivan Skavinsky Skavar plus Decembrists (all)

the authors (especially Roberto Pescatore) frequently answer questions and converse on the ippolit website

[kranium]

[i quite 'naively' assumed that the CCRL (and CEGT/IPON) would behave in a mature professional manner, and would be motivated to test 'all legally available engines' in an objective and unbiased manner...
that means regardless of whether they 'liked' the author, free copies of commercial engines, the color of his skin, the author's history, if he was anonymous', etc., etc.
a very reasonable expectation...

my bad!

In my opinion, it would be quite correct for a testing organization to REFUSE to test a commercial engine that would not supply free copies to test. They should hardly be expected to pay money to help the sales of a commercial engine. I recommend that you drop the complaint about getting free copies, it makes you look silly. You have much better arguments than this one.

it's a form of graft, and i am anti-capitalism, and against it...
what's really silly is the fact that you appear so uniformed about IvanHoe and Ippolit...

i suggest we remain tolerant of different viewpoints/experiences, and refrain from personal attacks/criticisms

[Don]

Larry-
remaining 'anonymous' fits perfectly with the 'socialist/communist' ideal.
individuals with such beliefs would never accept individual recognition for their efforts...
they are all (equal) workers simply striving to achieve a goal.

remaining anonymous makes sense...it's not a crime!

it's very unfortunate that many in the capitalist/materialistic 'West' absolutely cannot (or refuse to) understand that viewpoint...
i.e. must one always stand up, grab the microphone and spotlight, dance and shake tambourines ...?
in an effort to be recognized, (financially?) for his/her contribution...?
no!

it's very sad that some here think the whole Ippolit Decembrist's revolution is some sort of joke..?
(i suggest it's because they can't or are unwilling to understand it)

well, it's for real, and it's happening right under your nose....
sticking one's head in the sand isn't going to make it go away.

It is a joke and I seriously doubt there is more than 1 or 2 people involved and you choose a bloody and violent conflict which was LOST almost 200 years ago as your source of inspiration. How do you expect to be taken seriously?

Furthermore, your method appears to be based on intimidation and bullying people in order to get your way. I guess that is what a bloody revolution is all about.

[Laskos]

I'm not talking about the issue of whether Ivanhoe/Ippolit were "clones" of Rybka. I'm talking about the question of whether the authors of Ippolit recognize IvanHoe as "the final...Ippo". If IvanHoe is by different people, don't we need a clear statement from the Ippo authors that IvanHoe represents them, as opposed to Houdini for example? Perhaps I have missed this, was there ever a public statement on the Ippo website that they accept Ivanhoe as the official final Ippo and not Houdini? If so then the case for rating Ivanhoe would be stronger.

Well, their style is to make some funny statements, and nobody knows if IvanHoe is written by exactly the same folks as the first Ippolit. Houdini is NOT their product, they have _nothing_ to do with Houdini. IvanHoe is their project in development (beside a GUI), is generally accepted as their state-of-the-art engine, and certainly the best legitimate representative of ALL true Ippolits (Ippolit/Robbolito/Igorrit/IvanHoe).

Kai

[Graham Banks]

If IvanHoe is by different people, don't we need a clear statement from the Ippo authors that IvanHoe represents them, as opposed to Houdini for example? Perhaps I have missed this, was there ever a public statement on the Ippo website that they accept Ivanhoe as the official final Ippo and not Houdini? If so then the case for rating Ivanhoe would be stronger.

Larry-
I hope I can clarify, but quite frankly, i'm tiring of relaying this info:

There is only 1 IvanHoe...
the authors have just released a new version: 999946
the Linux tarball is available for download here:
www.ippolit.wikispaces.com

several people are compiling this native Linux code for Windows...
using both Microsoft VC ++ and Intel compilers.

these people include:
KLO (King Liveson)
www.open-chess.org

PeterPan
at the notorious Russian 'Immortal' chess website

please note:
these individuals only 'compile' the code released at ippolit.wikispace.com by the 'Decembrists'...

my involvement has been from the very beginning(summer 2009)...not as compiler but as 'collaborating' Windows developer
the history of which is well documented:
www.chesslogik.com and immortalchess.net

when ippolit was 1st released (summer 2009), it was completely unusable on windows, (as well as unstable on Linux), and the code was written in a sort Italian/Albanian dialect
myself (with help from Sentinel), developed and released more than a dozen public betas for testing on Immortal, end of 2009
the final release was RoboLito 0.09 which remains today near the top of all lists, especially single CPU...

It is this version that corresponds exactly with Houdini 1.0

IvanHoe is the recent name/version of Ippolit/Robbolito/Iggorit chronology of ippolit.wikispaces.com releases...

the authors are (still):
Yakov Petrovich Golyadkin, Igor Igorovich Igoronov, Roberto Pescatore, Yusuf Ralf Weisskopf, Ivan Skavinsky Skavar plus Decembrists (all)

the authors (especially Roberto Pescatore) frequently answer questions and converse on the ippolit website

Here in CCC, pretty sure that most know that:

Sentinel = Milos Stanisavljevic
Kranium = Norman Schmidt
Kingliveson = Franklin Titus
Carotino = Roberto Munter
Peterpan = Izak Pretorius

So no need to keep using the pseudos.

[kranium]

Here in CCC, pretty sure that most know that:

Sentinel = Milos Stanisavljevic
Kranium = Norman Schmidt
Kingliveson = Franklin Titus
Carotino = Roberto Munter
Peterpan = Izak Pretorius

So no need to keep using the pseudos.

Damnation!
you fiend...we're ruined, our conspiracy is foiled!

[kranium]

It is a joke and I seriously doubt there is more than 1 or 2 people involved and you choose a bloody and violent conflict which was LOST almost 200 years ago as your source of inspiration. How do you expect to be taken seriously?

Furthermore, your method appears to be based on intimidation and bullying people in order to get your way. I guess that is what a bloody revolution is all about.

There are dozens of anonymous 'Decembrists' developing IvanHoe, they log-in and post regularly on ippolit.wikispaces.com
that's one reason the engine is developing so quickly...

Standing up and speaking out for what you believe in, or against what you perceive as an injustice, is hardly 'bullying'
...sorry you see it that way