2007 World Computer Rapid Chess Championships: Final Results

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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George Tsavdaris
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Re: 2007 World Computer Rapid Chess Championships: games pgn

Post by George Tsavdaris »

Steve B wrote: if my post is the only one deleted while the other two posters comments remain i am out of here until new elections are held
What other two posters comments do you believe should be deleted?

Your post that has been deleted was saying, for no reason, 2 programmers that participated in this discussion, low level programmers.

You didn't explain your opinion, about why you think they are low level programmers and why they will never reach while you live :) any good level with their engines. You just said that because you disagreed with them.
That is, in my opinion, a post not very good.....
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hgm
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Re: 2007 World Computer Rapid Chess Championships: games pgn

Post by hgm »

I was more referring to the 'low-level programmer' remark.

Not everyone considers assembly programming a virtue... :wink:

I am not a native English speaker, so I don't know how much my opinion is worth here. But 'mediocre' does not sound to me like a politically correct qualification. 'Somewhat weaker engines' sounds much nicer.

If you insult my engine, you insult me! :evil:

To be frank: I thought that your remark
i notice that there are several members here with Mediocre Engines that have an awful lot of negative comments to post
oddly i never see these engines in high level competition

now why is that i wonder??
was way out of line and totally uncalled for. To notice and object to a violation of the rules, you don't have to be a good programmer or author of a strong engine. So to mention the alleged quality of a plaintiff's engine really serves no purpose and can be construed as a below-the-belt blow.

That only authors of engines seem to note such violations (and by definition the bulk of all engines do not qualify as top engines) is likely to be caused by the fact that there is no need for non programmers (and thus non-participants) to be aware of the rules.

Using such 'arguments' to discredit someone who has a justified complaint does not seem kosher to me. Unintended cheating is still cheating, and although I would not have picked that wordin myself, the one who did clearly indicated he did not use that word in its sharpest meaning by writing it between quotes.
Steve B

Re: 2007 World Computer Rapid Chess Championships: games pgn

Post by Steve B »

hgm wrote:

If you insult my engine, you insult me! :evil:
yes i can see that
none the less..a remark about ones engine is not the same thing as a personal attack against a member and therefore should not be moderated as it is not in conflict with the charter

the deletion of my post alone was misguided and if it remains as the only post deleted here.. you and Uri and Phillips will be happy to hear i am out until NEW ELECTIONS are held which are now WAAAY OVERDUE

Steve
frankp
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Re: 2007 World Computer Rapid Chess Championships: games pgn

Post by frankp »

Steve B wrote:
hgm wrote:

If you insult my engine, you insult me! :evil:
yes i can see that
none the less..a remark about ones engine is not the same thing as a personal attack against a member and therefore should not be moderated as it is not in conflict with the charter

the deletion of my posy alone was misguided and if it will remains as the only post deleted here.. you and Uri and Phillips will be happy to hear i am out until NEW ELECTIONS are held which are now WAAAY OVERDUE

Steve
I will not be happy.

Phillips
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hgm
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Re: 2007 World Computer Rapid Chess Championships: games pgn

Post by hgm »

Steve B wrote:yes i can see that
none the less..a remark about ones engine is not the same thing as a personal attack against a member and therefore should not be moderated as it is not in conflict with the charter
Indeed. But calling someone a 'low-level programmer' is. I don't think that anyone could read that as a remark about an engine...

This seems a perfect explanation for why your original 'mediocre' post was not deleted, but your 'low-level' post was. :idea:
Steve B

Re: 2007 World Computer Rapid Chess Championships: games pgn

Post by Steve B »

hgm wrote:
Steve B wrote:yes i can see that
none the less..a remark about ones engine is not the same thing as a personal attack against a member and therefore should not be moderated as it is not in conflict with the charter
Indeed. But calling someone a 'low-level programmer' is. I don't think that anyone could read that as a remark about an engine...

This seems a perfect explanation for why your original 'mediocre' post was not deleted, but your 'low-level' post was. :idea:

that term means a programmer of a lower rated Engine

it was an observation that three programmers of lower rated engines were IMHO attacking a top engine
and i mentioned NOONE by name

and it is ok to call someone a fanboy??? [no - it's been deleted]

it is clear that my posts are not so valued here as the posts of any engine author

it is INCORRECT for a moderator to delete a post when one of the three members involved in a debate is the one complaining

Steve
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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: 2007 World Computer Rapid Chess Championships: games pgn

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb »

Come on guys,knock it out....
Steve B is a respected member of this forum and a pioneer in the dedicated units area and I'll be very sad if he stops to post here :?
OTOH,I do strongly respect all the engine authors and their efforts to feed our souls with the so needed chess engines.....
Please stop and this thread to die from a natural death :D
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frankp
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Re: 2007 World Computer Rapid Chess Championships: games pgn

Post by frankp »

Steve B wrote:
hgm wrote:
Steve B wrote:yes i can see that
none the less..a remark about ones engine is not the same thing as a personal attack against a member and therefore should not be moderated as it is not in conflict with the charter
Indeed. But calling someone a 'low-level programmer' is. I don't think that anyone could read that as a remark about an engine...

This seems a perfect explanation for why your original 'mediocre' post was not deleted, but your 'low-level' post was. :idea:

that term means a programmer of a lower rated Engine

it was an observation that three programmers of lower rated engines were IMHO attacking a top engine
and i mentioned NOONE by name

and it is ok to call someone a fanboy???

it is clear that my posts are not so valued here as the posts of any engine author

it is INCORRECT for a moderator to delete a post when one of the three members involved in a debate is the one complaining

Steve
Fanboys is not a nice term I should have said simply fans. As I said I would like your post reinstated; and have no problem with my post being deleted or edited to say fans instead of fanboys.

[note from moderation - the deleted post cannot be retrieved]

I went to great lengths to try to make it clear I was neither attacking 'top engines' nor operators.
Harvey Williamson

Re: 2007 World Computer Rapid Chess Championships: games pgn

Post by Harvey Williamson »

frankp wrote:
Steve B wrote:
hgm wrote:
Steve B wrote:yes i can see that
none the less..a remark about ones engine is not the same thing as a personal attack against a member and therefore should not be moderated as it is not in conflict with the charter
Indeed. But calling someone a 'low-level programmer' is. I don't think that anyone could read that as a remark about an engine...

This seems a perfect explanation for why your original 'mediocre' post was not deleted, but your 'low-level' post was. :idea:

that term means a programmer of a lower rated Engine

it was an observation that three programmers of lower rated engines were IMHO attacking a top engine
and i mentioned NOONE by name

and it is ok to call someone a fanboy???

it is clear that my posts are not so valued here as the posts of any engine author

it is INCORRECT for a moderator to delete a post when one of the three members involved in a debate is the one complaining

Steve
Fanboys is not a nice term I should have said simply fans. As I said I would like your post reinstated; and have no problem with my post being deleted or edited to say fans instead of fanboys.

I went to great lengths to try to make it clear I was neither attacking 'top engines' nor operators.
Hi,

I think the time has come to lock this thread and let it die a natural death as Wael has suggested. First I think as Frank requests steve's post should be reinstated.

Harvey
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hgm
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Re: 2007 World Computer Rapid Chess Championships: games pgn

Post by hgm »

Steve B wrote:
hgm wrote:Indeed. But calling someone a 'low-level programmer' is. I don't think that anyone could read that as a remark about an engine...
that term means a programmer of a lower rated Engine
Hmm... That meaning is not obvious to me, and apparently also not obvious to the moderator. It seems at least rather ambiguous.

As the original post was deleted, it is no longer possible to engage in nitpicking about the exact wording, and what it might have meant/not meant. If the moderators wanted us to repeat all that, they wouldn't have deleted the post.

I am not intent on harrassing Steve. I have only post all this because he explicitly asked me why I thought the referees could have deleted his message. I think that if he takes offense to the fan-boy stuff, he should complain to the referee, and not in public to me.

The only point I want to make, and ever wanted to make, is that any engine team should be subject to the rules, no matter how strong the engine, and that anyone should be allowed to object if they don't, no matter how weak their engines, how feeble their programming skills or, indeed if they have never written an engine at all. This seems so obvious that I am surprised that it has to be a source of nasty qualifications and innuendos. :cry: