Houdini 1.5 running for the IPON

[Houdini]

we are a bunch of grown men pushing wooden horsies around on cardboard squares and nobody lives or dies because of it.

As Bill Shankly would say: "Chess is not a matter of life and death ... it's more important than that".

[Don]

Because and let's suppose that Houdini 1.5 is 3010 ELO and Rybka 4 2955 ELO in you conditions that is with a big set of random positions, then can we say that Houdini is generally the strongest program than Rybka by all means?

No! ►

Hahahaha, I bet Fritz 5.32 with a very specialized book is actually the best engine around, unfortunately no one bothered to put its special book in games.

Some guys here seem to be fetishist about Rybka not being the strongest, a behaviour found in the attitude of parents towards their kids.

Funny, they seem incorruptible, I bet even if I bribe these fanatics they will state that Rybka is the best.

Kai

I see a lot of unreasonableness on both sides. There are irrational people who seem to be "fist pumping" ecstatic if there is evidence something is stronger than Rybka and there are others who don't want to believe it is possible. Both sides are extreme points of views that seriously reveal a lack of objectivity and a high level of unreasonableness and emotionality.

This is very visible when you see them "interpret" things always in double standard fashion.

Here is something impressive:
Author a program like TSCP or SamChess.
A small program that plays chess correctly.
Don't believe me that it is impressive? Try it yourself (Don is not targeted here, of course).
Most people can't do it.

To write a very strong chess program is even more impressive. Is it easy to add 70 Elo to some already strong chess program? Give it a try with Stockfish, and let us know what a simple feat it is.

What Vas has done is impressive. What Robert has done is impressive.

I don't like the air of negativity that seems to have arisen, where people polarize themselves into camps and sling mud at one another.

Now, I am not going to see an ideal world in chess programming, because {unfortunately} humans are at the wheel here. And we humans can be pretty antagonistic and dumb, given the chance to act that way.

Here is my ideal world:
We all put effort into understanding ways to make chess algorithms play better chess and share our ideas.

Here's the catch:
Chess programming is intensely competitive. So the programmers are reluctant to share what they have gathered. Some are kind enough to share everything. Some share only a fraction. Either way, we get a swelll engine to play with, but it sure would be nice to know what makes it tick.

How do we solve it?
We can't. But we can aim in a better direction and we can temper our animosity by realizing that we are a bunch of grown men pushing wooden horsies around on cardboard squares and nobody lives or dies because of it.

IMO-YMMV

Very good post and I agree with everything you said.

One thing that I want to add to this is that is that I believe we (as humans) are way too influenced by our own self interests. It should be understood that if you are a program author, you are affected a lot differently that someone who is just a chess program downloader. And in either case there are sub-categories of authors and consumers.

[IWB]

Test for Houdini 1.5 finished!

The IPON has a new CLEAR leader!

http://www.inwoba.de

One remark in a private matter: Thanks for your interest! You pushed the daily access with individual IPs (I only count that) to a new top level!

Have a nice weekend
Ingo

[Denzwell]

The current result can be found here:

http://www.inwoba.de

Have fun
Ingo

Hi Ingo,

Where can we downloaded the lastest games (PGN)

Thanks

[George Tsavdaris]

Test for Houdini 1.5 finished!

The IPON has a new CLEAR leader!

http://www.inwoba.de

One remark in a private matter: Thanks for your interest! You pushed the daily access with individual IPs (I only count that) to a new top level!

If I -that i hate this list- have watched it many many times to see the progress, then imagine what others would have done.

[IWB]

Hi George,

If I -that i hate this list- have watched it many many times to see the progress, then imagine what others would have done.

I know that the hit rate is much much higher, but of course this is due to the live test I am running. I do not follow that page hits. the only thing I look at the the new IP numbers. Looking at that it is nice to see some new records, and frustrating (or bringing one to the ground) to see the absolut numbers.

Just one thing in general: The overall meaning of computer chess is overrated - here! (andif one hate it or love it meaningless on a big scale. I love and hate to say that at the same time!)

Bye
Ingo

[IWB]

Hi Ingo,

Where can we downloaded the lastest games (PGN)

Thanks

You cant. Please have a look at the rules and the general remarks at the end. I know this is degradeing the list, but thats the way I like to keep it.

Thanks for your understanding
Ingo

[Denzwell]

Hi Ingo,

Where can we downloaded the lastest games (PGN)

Thanks

You cant. Please have a look at the rules and the general remarks at the end. I know this is degradeing the list, but thats the way I like to keep it.

Thanks for your understanding
Ingo

So that your engine rating list be credible you have to share your games.

[yanquis1972]

Because and let's suppose that Houdini 1.5 is 3010 ELO and Rybka 4 2955 ELO in you conditions that is with a big set of random positions, then can we say that Houdini is generally the strongest program than Rybka by all means?

No! ►

Hahahaha, I bet Fritz 5.32 with a very specialized book is actually the best engine around, unfortunately no one bothered to put its special book in games.

Some guys here seem to be fetishist about Rybka not being the strongest, a behaviour found in the attitude of parents towards their kids.

Funny, they seem incorruptible, I bet even if I bribe these fanatics they will state that Rybka is the best.

Kai

I see a lot of unreasonableness on both sides. There are irrational people who seem to be "fist pumping" ecstatic if there is evidence something is stronger than Rybka and there are others who don't want to believe it is possible. Both sides are extreme points of views that seriously reveal a lack of objectivity and a high level of unreasonableness and emotionality.

This is very visible when you see them "interpret" things always in double standard fashion.

i have to disagree with this myself. i would consider myself a 'fist pumper' & very happy with houdini's release. ('ecstatic' may be slight overkill). i am active on the rybka forum after i fell in love with rybka 3 (which i truly was ecstatic about, discovering after having been away from computer chess for a couple years). nevertheless i root for -all- engine authors, & cherish the competition because it benefits me (& all end users). robert gaining 50 elo on ippolit code (sorry if that sounds dergotary, i mean that in the supposed 'worst case' scenario) is a remarkable achievement imo. it's been out there for two years now & has barely gained an ounce of strength. 50 elo is a massive achievement at this level. in fact, i'm not sure R4 was 50 elo above R3, though i could be wrong. this is a good thing & puts pressure on vas & the rest to both do & release their best (imo vas didn't with R4, which was truly disappointing, even moreso since there has been no word on 'rental rybka'. but i don't hate the guy for it & i'm not bitter. i'm just happy to see change, which is a constant with me but something i suppose a lot of people are against because it upsets balance).

anyway -- still waiting on the next komodo. incredible potential & i promise you there will be much 'fist pumping' on my part should you succeed in taking the top spot.

[Don]

Because and let's suppose that Houdini 1.5 is 3010 ELO and Rybka 4 2955 ELO in you conditions that is with a big set of random positions, then can we say that Houdini is generally the strongest program than Rybka by all means?

No! ►

Hahahaha, I bet Fritz 5.32 with a very specialized book is actually the best engine around, unfortunately no one bothered to put its special book in games.

Some guys here seem to be fetishist about Rybka not being the strongest, a behaviour found in the attitude of parents towards their kids.

Funny, they seem incorruptible, I bet even if I bribe these fanatics they will state that Rybka is the best.

Kai

I see a lot of unreasonableness on both sides. There are irrational people who seem to be "fist pumping" ecstatic if there is evidence something is stronger than Rybka and there are others who don't want to believe it is possible. Both sides are extreme points of views that seriously reveal a lack of objectivity and a high level of unreasonableness and emotionality.

This is very visible when you see them "interpret" things always in double standard fashion.

i have to disagree with this myself. i would consider myself a 'fist pumper' & very happy with houdini's release. ('ecstatic' may be slight overkill). i am active on the rybka forum after i fell in love with rybka 3 (which i truly was ecstatic about, discovering after having been away from computer chess for a couple years). nevertheless i root for -all- engine authors, & cherish the competition because it benefits me (& all end users). robert gaining 50 elo on ippolit code (sorry if that sounds dergotary, i mean that in the supposed 'worst case' scenario) is a remarkable achievement imo. it's been out there for two years now & has barely gained an ounce of strength. 50 elo is a massive achievement at this level. in fact, i'm not sure R4 was 50 elo above R3, though i could be wrong. this is a good thing & puts pressure on vas & the rest to both do & release their best (imo vas didn't with R4, which was truly disappointing, even moreso since there has been no word on 'rental rybka'. but i don't hate the guy for it & i'm not bitter. i'm just happy to see change, which is a constant with me but something i suppose a lot of people are against because it upsets balance).

anyway -- still waiting on the next komodo. incredible potential & i promise you there will be much 'fist pumping' on my part should you succeed in taking the top spot.

Your kind of "fist pumping" with Houdini is good.

The "fist pumping" I'm talking about is not because someone came up with a good program, but because of pettiness. The ones I'm talking are pumping their fists due to the fact that they think they see someone being put down, not because they see someone doing well.