Longer Article

[Michael Diosi]

Hi,


Maybe them and you should take a look at the Arena page. We have asked everybody for permission before publishing pics or info. Also everyone is mentioned.


But anyway, July is near...


Michael
http://www.playwitharena.com

[Albert Silver]

Hi,


Maybe them and you should take a look at the Arena page. We have asked everybody for permission before publishing pics or info. Also everyone is mentioned.


But anyway, July is near...


Michael
http://www.playwitharena.com

Is there a secret link somewhere on that page, or is this some weird joke? I went to see what you are constantly talking about (I only go to the Arena pages to get updated versions of the GUI) and really couldn't see anything. The newsticker only shows a weekly diagram, and the only non-diagram news is an occasional mention of translated menus.

[Michael Diosi]

Hi,

it is not ready yet. Martin will update it, if he is ready to do it, not me anymore...

Michael
http://www.playwitharena.com

[jdart]

I might add, disassembly can also be illegal due to provisions in the DMCA, but that is US law.

[h1a8]

So I was convinced by Mark to put my name on the letter

Reference is to Mr HIARCS Uniacke. Can he appear to be Chief of the confed?

If case is so clear on technicals, why his persuasion was necessary?

Rybka has been so dominant for so long

Yes. This is 90% of point.

the guy talking about the confederacy of dunces should take a good look in the mirror

I am good-looking. I see skeptic chessplayer.

I play Zappa, I have not a bad record. But without the permission of its true author/s, I am polite not to publish it.

But I play RYBKA, I get most painful crush if I play for win, else some draws also.

I don't plan on replying

But was not able to resist?

When replying, can you please report decompilation investigation in to how HIARCS gain 200 ELO in very short period? Better, demand source code.

Or is it there is not an investigation to this? Why? Because Mr "Osipov" not bother to reverse engineer weakie, when he has RYBKA for target?

As you can see below, Hiarcs has gained 132 ELO over the course of 4 years. This information is based on release dates and CCRL testing.

So your point of 200 elo in a "short time" is not even remotely valid. Sorry.


Hiarcs 11-released December 6th, 2006-ELO=2879

Hiarcs 12.1-released December 14th, 2008-ELO=2921

Hiarcs 13.2-released December 24th, 2010-ELO=3011


Hiarcs is a great engine and the their customer service is amazing.

Hello !

And how explain you these jumps-please:

versions:
13.1-2950
12.1-2890
11.1-2853

and before Rybka's apparition:

10-2776
9-2711
8 Bareev-2697
8-2659
7.32-2659 ELO points

117 ELO points between versions 7.32-10
174 ELO points between versions 10-13.1

Biblio:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_4_Ra ... liste.html
===================================================
And , from years , was a theory: at upper levels the progress slow down.
===================================================

A lot of commercials are in big progress after Rybka : Deep Sjeng , Hiarcs , Fritzy- my love , Shredder.................not to talk something about the new stars: Critter , Komodo , Stockfish, Gull . Even Spike is in great progress.
For Houdini all is clear : uses ideas from free sources !
Ippo,Robbo,Ivan & Co. were born with the radiation syndrome !

Remember you-please- about the small progress of Shredder years ago !

O tempora , o mores !

S

The jumps between 9 and 10 is greater than ANY of the jumps from 11 to 13. It's common sense that elo increase of chess engine development is never linear. Some years a 10elo jump, others a 60 elo jump. Depends on many different factors.

Your argument here isn't even scientific.

[jmartus]

I have always find his writing very clear and precise. always a good read

[Albert Silver]

I have always find his writing very clear and precise. always a good read

Myeah... I have a lot of problems with his text, and I am not even talking about the actual "origin of Rybka" deal.

When Fruit 2.1 came out, it was very strong, close to the top, and a lot of programmers examined it and concluded that aside from the emphasis on mobility, there was little new under the sun, and its primary virtue was its beautiful bug-free coding. According to CEGT blitz testing (with some 6700 games) it is rated 2710 on a single CPU. Cozzie is incredibly disparaging of Vas in his article, suggesting he gave away the biggest secret out of ignorance, and that Rybka is nothing more than optimizations and fine-tuning. Presumably, anyone could do this, since the real secret is the super-testing. Well, 5 years later, Rybka 4 (single-CPU) on the same rating list is 3179, or roughly FOUR HUNDRED AND SIXTY Elo worth of optimizations and finetuning, of a virtually bugfree program (Fruit 2.1).

Just to be clear, I am not arguing in favor or against the issue of Rybka-Fruit, just that it is not given to anyone to add 460 Elo over what is an acclaimed bugfree environment, with some mere optimizations and finetuning. If it were so easy, why didn't Cozzie just take the main secret testing method and spank Vas to the ground? Surely he is a much better programmer as he alludes to.

In the end, I agree with his Occam's Razor statement: the simplest explanation is often the right one, and in this case, it is simply that Vas is a much better engine programmer, no matter what his starting point.

[UncombedCoconut]

Cozzie is [...] suggesting he gave away the biggest secret out of ignorance.

You've said this twice; it may be a misunderstanding.

So I think Vasik Rajlich is simply a good programmer with the chess knowledge of an International Master and no moral issues with plagiarizing the work of others who was using a better tuning method than the rest of us. I'm guessing here, but I don't think he really understood that and instead considered other engine authors incompetent morons (...), which also explains why he was willing to tell me his procedure in Mexico.

I read his guess as: Vas didn't realize his most distinct advantage over his competitors (in terms of writing a strong program very quickly) was his willingness to plagiarize. Thinking instead that his competitors were just incompetent, he saw no risk in sharing his testing procedure. He obviously would have recognized its superiority and importance, since its results quantify themselves.

Did you read it differently? Note: I am paraphrasing, not evaluating.

[michiguel]

Cozzie is [...] suggesting he gave away the biggest secret out of ignorance.

You've said this twice; it may be a misunderstanding.

So I think Vasik Rajlich is simply a good programmer with the chess knowledge of an International Master and no moral issues with plagiarizing the work of others who was using a better tuning method than the rest of us. I'm guessing here, but I don't think he really understood that and instead considered other engine authors incompetent morons (...), which also explains why he was willing to tell me his procedure in Mexico.

I read his guess as: Vas didn't realize his most distinct advantage over his competitors (in terms of writing a strong program very quickly) was his willingness to plagiarize. Thinking instead that his competitors were just incompetent, he saw no risk in sharing his testing procedure. He obviously would have recognized its superiority and importance, since its results quantify themselves.

Did you read it differently? Note: I am paraphrasing, not evaluating.

I find really hard to accept that you can improve search by testing with games limited by 3 or 4 plies.

Miguel

[Albert Silver]

Cozzie is [...] suggesting he gave away the biggest secret out of ignorance.

You've said this twice; it may be a misunderstanding.

So I think Vasik Rajlich is simply a good programmer with the chess knowledge of an International Master and no moral issues with plagiarizing the work of others who was using a better tuning method than the rest of us. I'm guessing here, but I don't think he really understood that and instead considered other engine authors incompetent morons (...), which also explains why he was willing to tell me his procedure in Mexico.

I read his guess as: Vas didn't realize his most distinct advantage over his competitors (in terms of writing a strong program very quickly) was his willingness to plagiarize. Thinking instead that his competitors were just incompetent, he saw no risk in sharing his testing procedure. He obviously would have recognized its superiority and importance, since its results quantify themselves.

Did you read it differently? Note: I am paraphrasing, not evaluating.

Yes, I read it quite differently. Cozzie makes it clear he is not alluding to Rybka starting with a bit of Fruit here and there, but the whole thing ("even when you are starting with something decent" i.e. Fruit 2.1), and guesses that Vas considered the others morons, because even though he started with something decent (Fruit 2.1), at a par with other top programs of the day (Shredder, Fritz, and co.), he trounced them in 6 months, something the others were incapable of doing. Why couldn't they? Because they were incompetent. Except that Vas didn't realize that it was not so much his programming skill that achieved this (just optimizations and finetuning) but the hyperbullet testing that was the real secret of his success. Not realizing that, he gave away the actual secret to his success, mistakenly thinking it was his other engine programming skill that had reached it. But not so, the real secret sauce was his hyperbullet testing, that allowed for optimzations and finetuning. The 460 Elo he achieved was purely the result of optimizations and finetuning through the the hyperbullet testing.

"It was simply a highly optimized and well tuned program. (...) I realized the secret sauce: hyperbullet testing. (...) The massive improvement in engine strength from 2005 to 2010 is mostly due to them."