Komodo 9.2

[Leto]

To Larry or Mark, let's say you have the strongest computer in the world and you have unlimited time to make your moves against a very strong opponent who might not put as much effort into it as you, what would you say is the optimal contempt setting to get a good chance of winning the game without setting yourself up for a loss? What would your answer be if you have the white pieces, and what would it be if you have the black pieces?

[lkaufman]

To Larry or Mark, let's say you have the strongest computer in the world and you have unlimited time to make your moves against a very strong opponent who might not put as much effort into it as you, what would you say is the optimal contempt setting to get a good chance of winning the game without setting yourself up for a loss? What would your answer be if you have the white pieces, and what would it be if you have the black pieces?

What is "a very strong opponent"? Strength is relative.

[Leto]

To Larry or Mark, let's say you have the strongest computer in the world and you have unlimited time to make your moves against a very strong opponent who might not put as much effort into it as you, what would you say is the optimal contempt setting to get a good chance of winning the game without setting yourself up for a loss? What would your answer be if you have the white pieces, and what would it be if you have the black pieces?

What is "a very strong opponent"? Strength is relative.

Let's say player B is 50 elo weaker, what would you say is the optimal contempt on K9.2 against that player?

[lkaufman]

To Larry or Mark, let's say you have the strongest computer in the world and you have unlimited time to make your moves against a very strong opponent who might not put as much effort into it as you, what would you say is the optimal contempt setting to get a good chance of winning the game without setting yourself up for a loss? What would your answer be if you have the white pieces, and what would it be if you have the black pieces?

What is "a very strong opponent"? Strength is relative.

Let's say player B is 50 elo weaker, what would you say is the optimal contempt on K9.2 against that player?

Based mostly on the tests by Kai, the rule of thumb is that optimal contempt is elogap/15, so in this case only 3. The default value of 15 was intended to be optimum for about a 150 gap, but it now appears that it should have been just 10 for that goal.

[Leto]

To Larry or Mark, let's say you have the strongest computer in the world and you have unlimited time to make your moves against a very strong opponent who might not put as much effort into it as you, what would you say is the optimal contempt setting to get a good chance of winning the game without setting yourself up for a loss? What would your answer be if you have the white pieces, and what would it be if you have the black pieces?

What is "a very strong opponent"? Strength is relative.

Let's say player B is 50 elo weaker, what would you say is the optimal contempt on K9.2 against that player?

Based mostly on the tests by Kai, the rule of thumb is that optimal contempt is elogap/15, so in this case only 3. The default value of 15 was intended to be optimum for about a 150 gap, but it now appears that it should have been just 10 for that goal.

You mean 50 for 150 elo gap right?

[lkaufman]

To Larry or Mark, let's say you have the strongest computer in the world and you have unlimited time to make your moves against a very strong opponent who might not put as much effort into it as you, what would you say is the optimal contempt setting to get a good chance of winning the game without setting yourself up for a loss? What would your answer be if you have the white pieces, and what would it be if you have the black pieces?

What is "a very strong opponent"? Strength is relative.

Let's say player B is 50 elo weaker, what would you say is the optimal contempt on K9.2 against that player?

Based mostly on the tests by Kai, the rule of thumb is that optimal contempt is elogap/15, so in this case only 3. The default value of 15 was intended to be optimum for about a 150 gap, but it now appears that it should have been just 10 for that goal.

You mean 50 for 150 elo gap right?

No, I meant what I wrote. 150 is a fairly typical gap between Komodo and opposing engines used by testing groups.

[Leto]

To Larry or Mark, let's say you have the strongest computer in the world and you have unlimited time to make your moves against a very strong opponent who might not put as much effort into it as you, what would you say is the optimal contempt setting to get a good chance of winning the game without setting yourself up for a loss? What would your answer be if you have the white pieces, and what would it be if you have the black pieces?

What is "a very strong opponent"? Strength is relative.

Let's say player B is 50 elo weaker, what would you say is the optimal contempt on K9.2 against that player?

Based mostly on the tests by Kai, the rule of thumb is that optimal contempt is elogap/15, so in this case only 3. The default value of 15 was intended to be optimum for about a 150 gap, but it now appears that it should have been just 10 for that goal.

You mean 50 for 150 elo gap right?

No, I meant what I wrote. 150 is a fairly typical gap between Komodo and opposing engines used by testing groups.

My mistake I was doing the math wrong somehow.

[Werewolf]

Larry - Can I just ask:

I've started a load of new IDeA projects with Komodo 9.2, and I left contempt alone (i.e. set to default 15).

Does this affect its play and evaluation in this mode, or is it just in actual two-player chess that contempt has an impact?

I'm not sure sure I like the concept of my IDeA projects being biased by subjective contempt. Thanks.

[Norm Pollock]

I sent 1750 games with two versions of Komodo 9.2 running with 12 cores to CEGT 40/4, one with the default 15 contempt setting, and one with contempt set to 0. After 1000 games the default 15 contempt version scored 68.6% after 1000 games, the contempt 0 version scored 72.1% after 750 games.

The average opposition for the opponents was around 141 elo lower than Komodo 9.1 x64 12CPU. Shouldn't the default version score higher than the contempt 0 version?

my thread with the scores. The CEGT 40/4 rating list should be updated soon:
http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57353

I checked all the CCRL and CEGT rating lists with various numbers of cores, considering only those lists that had established ratings for k9.0, k9.1, and k9.1. Averaging these six lists, I get that the elo gain from Komodo 9.0 to 9.1 was 20 elo, from 9.1 to 9.2 (using the default value for 9.2 in your test) was again another 20 elo. Since this is somewhat better than what I believe was the elo gain from 9.1 to 9.2 excluding contempt, the evidence on balance is that contempt did help against the range of opponents tested by CCRL and CEGT, but only by a few elo points. Stockfish 6 came out ten elo above K9.0 but ten below 9.1 and thirty below 9.2.

CEGT does not check Komodo 9.2 in its main testing format 40/20

I wonder why. I asked but they did not explain..

http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_40%2 ... liste.html

[lkaufman]

Larry - Can I just ask:

I've started a load of new IDeA projects with Komodo 9.2, and I left contempt alone (i.e. set to default 15).

Does this affect its play and evaluation in this mode, or is it just in actual two-player chess that contempt has an impact?

I'm not sure sure I like the concept of my IDeA projects being biased by subjective contempt. Thanks.

IDeA should be using infinite analysis, which does not use contempt, so contempt should not matter, it should use zero. To confirm this, set contempt to some ridiculous value like 400 and see if the opening evals in IDea are normal or silly.