The greatest game ever played has to be among 2 computers

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderator: Ras

pichy
Posts: 2564
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:04 am

Re: The greatest game ever played has to be among 2 computer

Post by pichy »

Martin Thoresen wrote:
pichy wrote: Where is the PGN and why do you select that particular game to be one of the greatest. Did it ended in a draw, if not what program failed to play perfect :?:
Why: simply because I am amazed of the amount of pawns sacrified to gain the upper hand in the end. To me it just looks like Houdini gives away the pawns but it saw incredibly deep in that game.
I don't have the PGN right here, but I can present the video review of the game that kingscrusher made a while back:



Almost 20.000 views, enjoy!
This game was amazing, and to be able to do that against Rybka makes it even more incredible. What are we witnessing here, computer creating new openings variation with an amazing combination attack to the open White King :shock:

PS: This has to be the greatest and most amazing game ever played :shock:
pichy
Posts: 2564
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:04 am

Re: The greatest game ever played has to be among 2 computer

Post by pichy »

CRoberson wrote:You should consider Freestyle chess where teams of humans and multiple computers work together. I've seen some games that go beyond what is expected from computers.

This could be the greates games of chess ever played in which both players were assisted by computers :shock:
http://www.chess.gr/tourn/1998/kasp-top/index.html
User avatar
Houdini
Posts: 1471
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:00 am

Re: The greatest game ever played has to be among 2 computer

Post by Houdini »

Martin Thoresen wrote:Rybka - Houdini game 1 of the TCEC match.
I'm a bit late to the party, but I agree. I remember watching this game live on ChessBomb - a year later it's still awesome.

One - two - three pawns sacked in a queen-less middle game and then Houdini plays the quiet move Kf7!! - having full positional compensation for 3 pawns.
Any human GM would be incredibly proud of this game, especially if he would have played it against the unbeaten world champion of the previous 4 years.
Somebody wrote the following comment to the video: "The stronger the chess engines become, the more random their games will look to us." :lol:

Robert
pichy
Posts: 2564
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:04 am

Re: The greatest game ever played has to be among 2 computer

Post by pichy »

Houdini wrote:
Martin Thoresen wrote:Rybka - Houdini game 1 of the TCEC match.
I'm a bit late to the party, but I agree. I remember watching this game live on ChessBomb - a year later it's still awesome.

One - two - three pawns sacked in a queen-less middle game and then Houdini plays the quiet move Kf7!! - having full positional compensation for 3 pawns.
Any human GM would be incredibly proud of this game, especially if he would have played it against the unbeaten world champion of the previous 4 years.
Somebody wrote the following comment to the video: "The stronger the chess engines become, the more random their games will look to us." :lol:

Robert

Yes, indeed that was an amazing game, I wonder how deep Houdini looked in order to make those pawns sacrifices and before it saw the move Kf7!! which gave Houdini compensation for the 3 pawns.

PS: Another question that I have, is anybody writing a book about the greatest games ever played by two engines or two computer programs. This could be a good money maker for people looking for ideas on what chess book to write in the future, since all that we have is greatest chess games ever played by two Humans which we all know that computer engines could easy top the caliber of those games making them much brilliants :roll:
beram
Posts: 1187
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:11 pm

Re: The greatest game ever played has to be among 2 computer

Post by beram »

That beautiful TCEC game nr1 has my vote to

grts Bram
pichy
Posts: 2564
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:04 am

Re: The greatest game ever played has to be among 2 computer

Post by pichy »

beram wrote:That beautiful TCEC game nr1 has my vote too

grts Bram
Now that I analyze it with different engines, I have not found another engine willing to make those sacrifices Yet :shock:

Martin Thoresen
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:07 am

Re: The greatest game ever played has to be among 2 computer

Post by Martin Thoresen »

pichy wrote: Yes, indeed that was an amazing game, I wonder how deep Houdini looked in order to make those pawns sacrifices and before it saw the move Kf7!! which gave Houdini compensation for the 3 pawns.
Here's the full PGN with depth searches etc.
d=depth, mt=move time, tl=time left, s=speed, pv=first x number of moves from their pv (not complete pv), tb=tablebase hits, R50=distance to 50-move rule kicks in.

Code: Select all

[Event "TCEC - Elite Match - S1"]
[Site "http://www.tcec-chess.org"]
[Date "2011.01.28"]
[Round "1.1"]
[White "Rybka 4.0"]
[Black "Houdini 1.5a"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Time "17:40:18"]
[ECO "B22"]
[Opening "Stoltz Attack, Sicilian"]
[TimeControl "9000+30"]
[PlyCount "106"]
[Number "1"]
[Termination "GUI adjudication"]
[BlackType "program"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[Variant "normal"]

{ Intel Core i7 980x @ 4272 MHz }
1.e4 { ev=0.00, d=1, mt=00:00:00, tl=02:30:00, s=0 kN/s, pv=e4, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
c5 { ev=0.00, d=1, mt=00:00:00, tl=02:30:00, s=0 kN/s, pv=c5, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
2.c3 { ev=0.00, d=1, mt=00:00:00, tl=02:30:00, s=0 kN/s, pv=c3, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
Nf6 { ev=0.00, d=1, mt=00:00:00, tl=02:30:00, s=0 kN/s, pv=Nf6, tb=0, R50=49,  }  
3.e5 { ev=0.00, d=1, mt=00:00:00, tl=02:30:00, s=0 kN/s, pv=e5, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
Nd5 { ev=0.00, d=1, mt=00:00:00, tl=02:30:00, s=0 kN/s, pv=Nd5, tb=0, R50=49,  }  
4.Nf3 { ev=0.00, d=1, mt=00:00:00, tl=02:30:00, s=0 kN/s, pv=Nf3, tb=0, R50=49,  }  
Nc6 { ev=0.00, d=1, mt=00:00:00, tl=02:30:00, s=0 kN/s, pv=Nc6, tb=0, R50=48,  }  
5.Bc4 { ev=0.00, d=1, mt=00:00:00, tl=02:30:00, s=0 kN/s, pv=Bc4, tb=0, R50=48,  }  
Nb6 { ev=0.00, d=1, mt=00:00:00, tl=02:30:00, s=0 kN/s, pv=Nb6, tb=0, R50=47,  }  
6.Bb3 { ev=0.00, d=1, mt=00:00:00, tl=02:30:00, s=0 kN/s, pv=Bb3, tb=0, R50=47,  }  
c4 { ev=0.00, d=1, mt=00:00:00, tl=02:30:00, s=0 kN/s, pv=c4, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
7.Bc2 { ev=0.00, d=1, mt=00:00:00, tl=02:30:00, s=0 kN/s, pv=Bc2, tb=0, R50=49,  }  
Qc7 { ev=0.00, d=1, mt=00:00:00, tl=02:30:00, s=0 kN/s, pv=Qc7, tb=0, R50=49,  }  
8.Qe2 { ev=0.00, d=1, mt=00:00:00, tl=02:30:00, s=0 kN/s, pv=Qe2, tb=0, R50=48,  }  
g5 { ev=0.00, d=1, mt=00:00:00, tl=02:30:00, s=0 kN/s, pv=g5, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
9.e6 { ev=0.00, d=1, mt=00:00:00, tl=02:30:00, s=0 kN/s, pv=e6, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
dxe6 { ev=0.00, d=1, mt=00:00:00, tl=02:30:00, s=0 kN/s, pv=dxe6, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
10.Nxg5 { ev=0.00, d=1, mt=00:00:00, tl=02:30:00, s=0 kN/s, pv=Nxg5, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
Qe5 { ev=0.00, d=1, mt=00:00:00, tl=02:30:00, s=0 kN/s, pv=Qe5, tb=0, R50=49,  }  
11.d4 { ev=0.11, d=23, pd=cxd3, mt=00:07:34, tl=02:22:25, s=600 kN/s, pv=d2d4 c4d3 c2d3 e5e2 e1e2 h7h6 g5f3 e6e5 b1d2, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
Qxe2+ { ev=0.07, d=26, pd=Kxe2, mt=00:04:19, tl=02:25:40, s=16899 kN/s, pv=e5e2 e1e2 e6e5 d4e5 c6e5 g5h7 f8g7 h7g5 g7h6, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
12.Kxe2 { ev=0.31, d=-2, pd=h5, mt=00:00:00, tl=02:22:55, s=0 kN/s, pv=e1e2 h7h5 g5f3 c8d7 b1a3 f8g7 c1e3 e8g8 h2h4, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
e5 { ev=0.08, d=27, pd=dxe5, mt=00:06:03, tl=02:20:06, s=17462 kN/s, pv=e6e5 d4e5 c6e5 g5h7 f8g7 h7g5 g7h6 b1a3 e5d3, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
13.dxe5 { ev=0.54, d=19, pd=Nxe5, mt=00:01:55, tl=02:21:29, s=550 kN/s, pv=d4e5 c6e5 g5h7 f8g7 h7g5, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
Nxe5 { ev=0.12, d=26, pd=Nxh7, mt=00:06:49, tl=02:13:47, s=17743 kN/s, pv=c6e5 g5h7 f8g7 h7g5 g7h6 b1a3 e5d3 c2d3 c4d3, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
14.Nxh7 { ev=0.45, d=20, pd=Bg7, mt=00:02:57, tl=02:19:02, s=582 kN/s, pv=g5h7 f8g7 h7g5 c8d7 c2e4 e5d3, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
Bg7 { ev=0.04, d=25, pd=Ng5, mt=00:03:07, tl=02:11:09, s=17161 kN/s, pv=f8g7 h7g5 e5d3 b1a3 c8d7 c2d3 c4d3 e2d3 b6a4, tb=0, R50=49,  }  
15.Ng5 { ev=0.45, d=20, pd=Bd7, mt=00:03:02, tl=02:16:30, s=551 kN/s, pv=h7g5 c8d7 c2e4 e5d3, tb=0, R50=49,  }  
Bd7 { ev=0.06, d=24, pd=Na3, mt=00:05:24, tl=02:06:15, s=17558 kN/s, pv=c8d7 b1a3 e5d3 c2d3 c4d3 e2d3 b6a4 d3e2 a7a5, tb=0, R50=48,  }  
16.Na3 { ev=0.37, d=21, pd=Bc6, mt=00:05:03, tl=02:11:57, s=573 kN/s, pv=b1a3 d7c6 c2e4 e5d3 e4c6 b7c6, tb=0, R50=48,  }  
Nd3 { ev=0.00, d=24, pd=Bxd3, mt=00:02:22, tl=02:04:23, s=17549 kN/s, pv=e5d3 c2d3 c4d3 e2d3 b6a4 d3e2 a7a5 h2h4 b7b5, tb=0, R50=47,  }  
17.Bxd3 { ev=0.38, d=20, pd=cxd3, mt=00:04:32, tl=02:07:55, s=551 kN/s, pv=c2d3 c4d3 e2d3, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
cxd3+ { ev=-0.01, d=22, pd=Kxd3, mt=00:00:01, tl=02:04:52, s=16628 kN/s, pv=c4d3 e2d3 b6a4 d3e2 a7a5 h2h4 b7b5 h4h5 b5b4, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
18.Kxd3 { ev=0.38, d=20, pd=Na4, mt=00:03:27, tl=02:04:57, s=597 kN/s, pv=e2d3 b6a4 f2f3 h8h6 g2g4 f7f5 g4f5 d7f5 d3e2, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
Na4 { ev=-0.04, d=24, pd=Ne4, mt=00:03:02, tl=02:02:20, s=17735 kN/s, pv=b6a4 g5e4 d7f5 d3e3 a8d8 e4g3 f5d3 h1d1 a4c5, tb=0, R50=49,  }  
19.f3 { ev=0.20, d=19, pd=Rh6, mt=00:05:12, tl=02:00:15, s=617 kN/s, pv=f2f3 h8h6 g2g4 f7f5 g4f5 d7f5 d3e2 a8c8 g5e4, tb=25, R50=50,  }  
a5 { ev=0.01, d=24, pd=h4, mt=00:04:27, tl=01:58:23, s=17983 kN/s, pv=a7a5 h2h4 f7f6 g5e4 f6f5 e4g5 a8c8 d3c2 b7b5, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
20.Ne4 { ev=0.26, d=20, pd=Rc8, mt=00:03:56, tl=01:56:49, s=625 kN/s, pv=g5e4 a8c8 h1e1 d7f5, tb=0, R50=49,  }  
f5 { ev=-0.27, d=25, pd=Ng3, mt=00:02:32, tl=01:56:21, s=17447 kN/s, pv=f7f5 e4g3 a8c8 g3e2 b7b5 b2b3 a4c3 c1b2 c3e2, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
21.Nf2 { ev=0.00, d=19, pd=b5, mt=00:09:28, tl=01:47:51, s=619 kN/s, pv=e4f2 b7b5 a3b1 b5b4 d3c2 e8f7 c1d2 a8c8 h2h4, tb=4, R50=49,  }  
b5 { ev=-0.28, d=24, pd=Kc2, mt=00:03:41, tl=01:53:10, s=17556 kN/s, pv=b7b5 d3c2 b5b4 a3c4 d7e6 c4e5 g7e5 h1e1 e5c3, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
22.Nc2 { ev=-0.14, d=19, pd=Rc8, mt=00:03:18, tl=01:45:03, s=603 kN/s, pv=a3c2 a8c8 c2d4 b5b4 c3b4 a5b4 f3f4 a4c5 d3e3, tb=1, R50=49,  }  
b4 { ev=-0.77, d=22, pd=c4, mt=00:02:22, tl=01:51:18, s=18015 kN/s, pv=b5b4 c3c4 d7e6 c2e3 a8c8 h2h3 g7b2 c1b2 a4b2, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
23.cxb4 { ev=-0.20, d=19, pd=axb4, mt=00:02:27, tl=01:43:06, s=596 kN/s, pv=c3b4 a5b4 c2b4 a4b2 c1b2 g7b2 a1b1 a8a3 d3e2, tb=31, R50=50,  }  
Kf7 { ev=-0.84, d=20, pd=f4, mt=00:00:00, tl=01:51:48, s=18032 kN/s, pv=e8f7 f3f4 a8a6 d3e2 a6e6 c2e3 d7b5 e2f3 a5b4, tb=0, R50=49,  }  
24.bxa5 { ev=-0.86, d=19, pd=Rxa5, mt=00:12:28, tl=01:31:08, s=630 kN/s, pv=b4a5 a8a5 d3d2 h8d8 c2b4 a4b2 c1b2 g7b2 a1b1, tb=271, R50=50,  }  
Rxa5 { ev=-1.72, d=22, pd=Rd1, mt=00:02:05, tl=01:50:14, s=19026 kN/s, pv=a8a5 h1d1 g7b2 c1b2 a4b2 d3e3 b2d1 a1d1 d7e8, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
25.Kd2 { ev=-0.86, d=20, pd=Rd8, mt=00:01:19, tl=01:30:19, s=643 kN/s, pv=d3d2 h8d8 c2e3 a4b2 d2e1 d7b5 c1d2 a5a3, tb=0, R50=49,  }  
Rd8 { ev=-1.76, d=19, pd=Nb4, mt=00:00:00, tl=01:50:44, s=14080 kN/s, pv=h8d8 c2b4 a5e5 f2d3 d7b5 h1e1 a4c5 e1e5 g7e5, tb=0, R50=49,  }  
26.Nb4 { ev=-0.86, d=19, pd=Re5, mt=00:01:59, tl=01:28:50, s=604 kN/s, pv=c2b4 a4b2, tb=2, R50=48,  }  
Re5 { ev=-1.74, d=26, pd=Nfd3, mt=00:02:06, tl=01:49:08, s=20745 kN/s, pv=a5e5 f2d3 d7b5 h1e1 a4c5 e1e5 g7e5 f3f4 e5f6, tb=0, R50=48,  }  
27.Nfd3 { ev=-2.06, d=20, pd=Bb5, mt=00:03:18, tl=01:26:03, s=635 kN/s, pv=f2d3 d7b5 h1e1 a4c5 e1e5 g7e5 a2a4 c5d3 a4b5, tb=352, R50=47,  }  
Bb5 { ev=-1.74, d=24, pd=Re1, mt=00:00:00, tl=01:49:39, s=19469 kN/s, pv=d7b5 h1e1 a4c5 e1e5 g7e5 f3f4 e5f6 d2e1 c5d3, tb=0, R50=47,  }  
28.Re1 { ev=-2.06, d=21, pd=Nc5, mt=00:00:36, tl=01:25:58, s=565 kN/s, pv=h1e1 a4c5 e1e5 g7e5 a2a4 c5d3 a4b5 d3b4 d2e2, tb=15, R50=46,  }  
Nc5 { ev=-2.00, d=28, pd=Rxe5, mt=00:02:36, tl=01:47:33, s=20352 kN/s, pv=a4c5 e1e5 g7e5 a2a4 c5d3 a4b5 d3b4 d2e2 b4c2, tb=32, R50=46,  }  
29.Rxe5 { ev=-1.94, d=21, pd=Bxe5, mt=00:01:01, tl=01:25:27, s=607 kN/s, pv=e1e5 g7e5 f3f4, tb=417, R50=50,  }  
Bxe5 { ev=-1.95, d=26, pd=a4, mt=00:00:00, tl=01:48:04, s=20505 kN/s, pv=g7e5 a2a4 c5d3 a4b5 d3b4 d2e2 b4c2 a1a4 c2d4, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
30.f4 { ev=-1.81, d=21, pd=Nxd3, mt=00:01:24, tl=01:24:34, s=626 kN/s, pv=f3f4 c5d3 b4d3 e5d4 a2a4 b5d3 g2g3 d3e4 d2e1, tb=75, R50=50,  }  
Bf6 { ev=-2.34, d=28, pd=Ke1, mt=00:02:07, tl=01:46:27, s=19609 kN/s, pv=e5f6 d2e1 c5d3 b4d3 b5d3 a2a4 d8c8 a4a5 c8c2, tb=148, R50=49,  }  
31.Ke1 { ev=-2.60, d=25, pd=Nxd3, mt=00:08:39, tl=01:16:25, s=650 kN/s, pv=d2e1 c5d3 b4d3 b5d3 c1e3 d8b8 a1d1 d3c2 d1d2, tb=543, R50=49,  }  
Nxd3+ { ev=-2.34, d=26, pd=Nxd3, mt=00:00:00, tl=01:46:57, s=19861 kN/s, pv=c5d3 b4d3 b5d3 a2a4 d8c8 a4a5 c8c2 c1d2 c2b2, tb=0, R50=50,  }  
32.Nxd3 { ev=-2.60, d=25, pd=Bxd3, mt=00:00:22, tl=01:16:33, s=674 kN/s, pv=b4d3 b5d3 c1e3 d8b8 a1d1 d3c2 d1d2 b8b2 e3d4, tb=8, R50=50,  }  
Bxd3 { ev=-2.34, d=30, pd=a4, mt=00:03:34, tl=01:43:53, s=19810 kN/s, pv=b5d3 a2a4 d8c8 a4a5 c8c2 c1d2 c2b2 a5a6 d3e4, tb=368, R50=50,  }  
33.a4 { ev=-2.75, d=25, pd=Rh8, mt=00:01:55, tl=01:15:08, s=672 kN/s, pv=a2a4 d8h8 h2h3 d3e4 a1a3 e4g2 a4a5 g2h3 a5a6, tb=754, R50=50,  }  
Rc8 { ev=-2.36, d=31, pd=a5, mt=00:05:32, tl=01:38:51, s=19939 kN/s, pv=d8c8 a4a5 c8c2 c1d2 c2b2 a5a6 d3e4 a1a3 e4g2, tb=820, R50=49,  }  
34.a5 { ev=-2.52, d=25, pd=Rc2, mt=00:04:04, tl=01:11:34, s=639 kN/s, pv=a4a5 c8c2 c1d2 c2b2 a5a6 d3e4 a1a4 e4g2 a6a7, tb=1144, R50=50,  }  
Rc2 { ev=-2.36, d=29, pd=Bd2, mt=00:00:03, tl=01:39:19, s=20294 kN/s, pv=c8c2 c1d2 c2b2 a5a6 d3e4 a1a3 e4g2 a6a7 g2a8, tb=1, R50=49,  }  
35.Bd2 { ev=-2.62, d=25, pd=Rxb2, mt=00:03:08, tl=01:08:56, s=652 kN/s, pv=c1d2 c2b2 a5a6 d3e4 a1a3 e4g2 a6a7 g2a8 h2h3, tb=1268, R50=49,  }  
Rxb2 { ev=-2.72, d=29, pd=a6, mt=00:05:16, tl=01:34:33, s=19840 kN/s, pv=c2b2 a5a6 d3e4 a1a3 e4g2 a6a7 g2a8 e1e2 f7e6, tb=2028, R50=50,  }  
36.a6 { ev=-2.62, d=26, pd=Be4, mt=00:02:13, tl=01:07:14, s=651 kN/s, pv=a5a6 d3e4 a1a3 e4g2 a6a7 g2a8 h2h3 f7e6 e1e2, tb=1538, R50=50,  }  
Be4 { ev=-2.35, d=27, pd=Ra3, mt=00:00:01, tl=01:35:02, s=19856 kN/s, pv=d3e4 a1a3 e4g2 a6a7 g2a8 e1e2 f7e6 h2h3 e6d7, tb=3, R50=49,  }  
37.Ra3 { ev=-2.62, d=26, pd=Bxg2, mt=00:01:26, tl=01:06:18, s=683 kN/s, pv=a1a3 e4g2 a6a7 g2a8 h2h3 f7e6 e1e2 e6d6, tb=853, R50=49,  }  
Bxg2 { ev=-2.68, d=31, pd=a7, mt=00:03:28, tl=01:32:05, s=20543 kN/s, pv=e4g2 a6a7 g2a8 e1e2 b2b1 d2e1 f6d4 a3a4 d4c5, tb=3910, R50=50,  }  
38.a7 { ev=-2.62, d=27, pd=Ba8, mt=00:03:40, tl=01:03:08, s=680 kN/s, pv=a6a7 g2a8 e1e2 f7e6 h2h3 e6d6 e2d3 d6d7 d2e1, tb=11307, R50=50,  }  
Rb1+ { ev=-2.71, d=29, pd=Ke2, mt=00:02:14, tl=01:30:21, s=20194 kN/s, pv=b2b1 e1e2 g2a8 d2e1 f6d4 a3a4 d4c5 e1c3 b1b3, tb=2530, R50=49,  }  
39.Ke2 { ev=-2.62, d=27, pd=Ba8, mt=00:01:20, tl=01:02:18, s=657 kN/s, pv=e1e2 g2a8 d2e1 b1b2 e1d2 f7e6 h2h3 e6d6 e2d3, tb=1717, R50=49,  }  
Ba8 { ev=-2.71, d=27, pd=Be1, mt=00:00:00, tl=01:30:52, s=19607 kN/s, pv=g2a8 d2e1 f6d4 a3a4 d4c5 e1c3 b1b3 e2d3 b3b7, tb=0, R50=48,  }  
40.Be1 { ev=-2.62, d=26, pd=Rb2, mt=00:03:29, tl=00:59:19, s=733 kN/s, pv=d2e1 b1b2 e1d2 f7e6 h2h3 e6d6 e2d3 d6d7 d2e1, tb=0, R50=48,  }  
Bd4 { ev=-2.96, d=29, pd=Ra4, mt=00:02:53, tl=01:28:29, s=20346 kN/s, pv=f6d4 a3a4 d4c5 a4a2 b1b3 e1h4 f7e6 a2a5 c5d4, tb=3591, R50=47,  }  
41.Ra2 { ev=-2.97, d=26, pd=Rb3, mt=00:04:34, tl=00:55:16, s=732 kN/s, pv=a3a2 b1b3 e1g3 f7e6 e2f1 d4c5 a2a6 e6d7 a6a2, tb=5537, R50=47,  }  
Rb3 { ev=-2.99, d=29, pd=Bg3, mt=00:01:59, tl=01:27:00, s=21403 kN/s, pv=b1b3 e1g3 f7e6 g3h4 d4g1 e2f1 g1e3 h4g3 e3c5, tb=13142, R50=46,  }  
42.Bg3 { ev=-2.97, d=25, pd=Ke6, mt=00:02:11, tl=00:53:35, s=731 kN/s, pv=e1g3 f7e6 e2f1 d4c5 a2a6 e6d7, tb=645, R50=46,  }  
Ke6 { ev=-2.99, d=30, pd=Bh4, mt=00:01:57, tl=01:25:33, s=21244 kN/s, pv=f7e6 g3h4 d4g1 h4g3 e6d7 a2a1 g1c5 a1a2 d7c7, tb=6707, R50=45,  }  
43.Kf1 { ev=-3.16, d=26, pd=Bc5, mt=00:04:25, tl=00:49:40, s=812 kN/s, pv=e2f1 d4c5 f1e2 e6d7 e2f1 d7c7 f1e2 e7e6 e2e1, tb=5143, R50=45,  }  
Bc5 { ev=-3.13, d=29, pd=Ke1, mt=00:01:51, tl=01:24:12, s=20310 kN/s, pv=d4c5 f1e1 e6d6 e1f1 d6d7 f1e2 d7c7 e2f1 e7e6, tb=2675, R50=44,  }  
44.Ke2 { ev=-3.43, d=27, pd=Kd7, mt=00:01:40, tl=00:48:30, s=747 kN/s, pv=f1e2 e6d7 e2f1 d7c7 f1e2 e7e6 e2e1 c7b6 e1e2, tb=1133, R50=44,  }  
Kd7 { ev=-3.65, d=29, pd=Rd2, mt=00:04:41, tl=01:20:02, s=20097 kN/s, pv=e6d7 a2d2 c5d6 d2a2 b3b4 a2a5 d6f4 g3f4 b4f4, tb=26626, R50=43,  }  
45.Kf1 { ev=-3.55, d=26, pd=Kc7, mt=00:03:50, tl=00:45:11, s=720 kN/s, pv=e2f1 d7c7 f1e2 e7e6, tb=3087, R50=43,  }  
Rb4 { ev=-3.72, d=28, pd=Ra5, mt=00:02:00, tl=01:18:32, s=20067 kN/s, pv=b3b4 a2a5 b4b1 f1e2 b1b2 e2d3 d7d6 a5a6 b2b6, tb=15665, R50=42,  }  
46.Ke1 { ev=-3.54, d=23, pd=Kc7, mt=00:02:46, tl=00:42:55, s=701 kN/s, pv=f1e1 d7c7 e1e2 b4b3, tb=3737, R50=42,  }  
Bd6 { ev=-3.92, d=28, pd=Kd2, mt=00:01:55, tl=01:17:07, s=20016 kN/s, pv=c5d6 e1d2 d6f4 d2c3 b4e4 g3f4 e4f4 a2d2 d7c7, tb=22862, R50=41,  }  
47.Kf2 { ev=-4.45, d=23, pd=Rc4, mt=00:12:15, tl=00:31:11, s=802 kN/s, pv=e1f2 b4c4 a2a1 d6c5 f2e1 c4c2 e1f1 d7c7 a1a6, tb=31100, R50=41,  }  
Bxf4 { ev=-4.49, d=28, pd=Ke1, mt=00:01:54, tl=01:15:44, s=19875 kN/s, pv=d6f4 f2e1 f4g3 h2g3 b4b1 e1f2 b1b3 a2d2 d7c7, tb=40337, R50=50,  }  
48.h4 { ev=-4.90, d=23, pd=Bh6, mt=00:05:03, tl=00:26:39, s=830 kN/s, pv=h2h4 f4h6 f2f1 b4b1 g3e1 h6e3 f1e2 f5f4 e1d2, tb=30502, R50=50,  }  
Bh6 { ev=-5.09, d=26, pd=Be5, mt=00:03:36, tl=01:12:38, s=19517 kN/s, pv=f4h6 g3e5 b4e4 e5a1 e4h4 a2a3 d7c7 a1e5 c7b7, tb=3388, R50=49,  }  
49.Kf1 { ev=-4.90, d=23, pd=Rb1, mt=00:07:39, tl=00:19:30, s=773 kN/s, pv=f2f1 b4b1 g3e1 h6e3 f1e2 f5f4 e1d2 b1b3 e2e1 e7e5, tb=1449, R50=49,  }  
Rb1+ { ev=-4.66, d=23, pd=Be1, mt=00:00:00, tl=01:13:09, s=11202 kN/s, pv=b4b1 g3e1 e7e5 a2a5 h6g7 a5a2 f5f4 a2d2 d7c7, tb=0, R50=48,  }  
50.Be1 { ev=-5.15, d=22, pd=Be3, mt=00:00:26, tl=00:19:34, s=743 kN/s, pv=g3e1 h6e3 f1e2 f5f4 e1d2 b1b3, tb=4, R50=48,  }  
e5 { ev=-5.27, d=22, pd=Ra5, mt=00:00:12, tl=01:13:27, s=17982 kN/s, pv=e7e5 a2a5 h6g7 a5a2 f5f4 a2d2 d7c7 d2c2 c7b6, tb=121, R50=50,  }  
51.h5 { ev=-8.03, d=19, pd=e4, mt=00:02:14, tl=00:17:51, s=810 kN/s, pv=h4h5 e5e4 a2g2 b1a1 g2g1 a8d5 g1g2 a1a7 e1c3, tb=16237, R50=50,  }  
f4 { ev=-9.10, d=21, pd=Rd2, mt=00:00:40, tl=01:13:17, s=19412 kN/s, pv=f5f4 a2d2 d7c7 d2c2 c7b6 c2d2 b6a7 d2a2 a7b8, tb=216, R50=50,  }  
52.Rd2+ { ev=-9.73, d=18, pd=Kc7, mt=00:00:27, tl=00:17:54, s=839 kN/s, pv=a2d2 d7c7 d2c2 c7b6 f1e2 e5e4 e1f2 e4e3 e2d3, tb=3907, R50=49,  }  
Kc7 { ev=-9.10, d=20, pd=Rc2, mt=00:00:01, tl=01:13:47, s=10170 kN/s, pv=d7c7 d2c2 c7b6 c2d2 b6a7 d2a2 a7b8 a2d2 b8c7, tb=1, R50=49,  }  
53.Rc2+ { ev=-9.73, d=17, pd=Kb6, mt=00:00:26, tl=00:17:59, s=1707 kN/s, pv=d2c2 c7b6 f1e2 e5e4 e1f2 e4e3 e2d3 e3f2 c2f2, tb=0, R50=48,  }  
Kb6 { ev=-9.31, d=19, pd=Rd2, mt=00:00:02, tl=01:14:16, s=14691 kN/s, pv=c7b6 c2d2 b6a7 d2a2 a7b8 a2d2 b8c7 d2c2 c7d6, tb=18, R50=48,  }  
0-1 
; { Game Nr. 1 : Houdini 1.5a wins against Rybka 4.0 by GUI adjudication 
; GameDuration = 04:10:48, Finalposition b7/P7/1k5b/4p2P/5p2/8/2R5/1r2BK2 w - - 4 54 }
S.Taylor
Posts: 8514
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: Jerusalem Israel

Re: The greatest game ever played has to be among 2 computer

Post by S.Taylor »

Martin Thoresen wrote:Rybka - Houdini game 1 of the TCEC match.
I was just going to say it myself, when i saw your face, and saw that you wrote this.

Houdini did some brilliant games on TCEC, and i remember that one of them was EXTREMELY great.

Even though i couldn't fathom it all out myself, i could still feel it was very great.

If top GM's analyze it, they may find it is just as great as the famous Spassky Larsen game, and other similar ones.

Just as great? Who knows? maybe more! Rybka at that time too, was not an engine that any human in history could tip over like Houdini did.
S.Taylor
Posts: 8514
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: Jerusalem Israel

Re: The greatest game ever played has to be among 2 computer

Post by S.Taylor »

Houdini wrote: Somebody wrote the following comment to the video: "The stronger the chess engines become, the more random their games will look to us." :lol:

Robert
I once used to argue this, because i liked that thought. And once, Vas took me up on it and argued very strongly against my "dillusions".
He infered that sacrificial play is stupid and only a sign of weak chess.
I argued that chess that looks not sensible and wins, must be stronger than chess which does look sensible and also wins, because the one that does not look sensible is still above our head, and yet it wins, even against our logic, so it must be much greater.
But i was arguing with IM Vasik, ao who am _I_ to speak, i thought.
S.Taylor
Posts: 8514
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: Jerusalem Israel

Re: The greatest game ever played has to be among 2 computer

Post by S.Taylor »

Don wrote:
pichy wrote:
Don wrote:
pichy wrote:
Jouni wrote:One candidate for best game:

Rotlevi - Eljaschoff, St. Petersburg 1909

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.Bb5 Bb4 5.O-O O-O 6.d3 d6 7.Bxc6 Bxc3 8.Bxb7 Bxb2 9.Bxa8 Bxa1 10.Bg5 Bg4 11.Qxa1 Qxa8 12.Bxf6 Bxf3 13.Bxg7 Bxg2 14.Bxf8 Bxf1 15.Qxf1 Qxf8 16.Qg2 Qg7 ½-½
Why would such a short game be considered one of the best ever played. First of all there was no battle in the middle game neither any creative move or innovation in the endgame. The level of play could NOT be voted as best since there was no effort to outperform the other opponent :roll:
The "greatest game" has no definition for determining what is "great" and what is not. So you are obviously free to supply your own and presumably Jouni see's this as a good candidate based on his own reasons. Does a game have to have a battle in the middle game to be great? What decides for you?
I agree anybody can select a game to be considered as best ever played, if that is the case I will select this one

White player unknown
Black player unkown

1.d4... d5 1/2 /12

Just because they decided to draw does not make this game special in anyway or form. Even if it was played among the two top current players GM Carlsen and GM Aronian. For me in order to be great in any sense that game has to be fought hard and the level of play such that even by using top engines such as Houdini as whate and Rybka, or Komodo as black when you analyze the entire game it display an even score throughout the game and if at any moment the game ended in a win either for White or Black it is because a great sacrifice was made that could not be prevented by the opponent. and that is what makes a game to be considered GREAT :roll:
There are many things that could qualify as criteria for greatest game. The one I do not like is where one side plays sub-optimally and then other side finds some "beautiful" win. One of the games like that was Fischers "game of the century" which I do not think qualifies as a great game let alone "game of the century." It was great only if you like spectacular moves. Byrne played some bad moves to make it possible for Fischer to win in spectacular fashion.
Indeed, most good computer programs today have no problem playing the spectacular .... Be6 that Fisher played in that game. (nor the .... Na4 move either)