Komodo - Rybka in Danger?

Rolf · Post by **Rolf** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:31 am

bob wrote:
Rolf wrote:
Graham Banks wrote:
Albert Silver wrote: You guys?
I think that Don misread your post and your intentions. He therefore edited his reply.
Albert should better learn to read properly! Don made a relative statement which was meant to those _who_ tried to offend Vas with their demands and these people Don called jerks. Not Albert who basically agrees with Don and Vas. The term jerks is of course not nice but liar isnt nice either.
However, when the shoe fits...

Bob, let's not fight about that. If you are right then the term is true. But if you are not, then Don's term is true, dont you agree at least on that one? Everything else is above me and you know that. What I am concerned about is that we speak about proof but several here stated that they didnt see evidence. That cant satisfy you, isnt it so? I always saw you only claiming what you could prove, well, the time there to do it.

gerold · Post by **gerold** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:38 am

Damir wrote:A new Chess engine by Larry K & Don Dailey is on its way ( this engine is a much improved version of Doch which will soon support MP, and not be free, but single version is....)

From the tests i have made with single version of Komodo
Rybka is not in Danger.

Best,
Gerold.

garybelton · Post by **garybelton** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:00 am

QED then. Ippolit/RobboLito/Igorrit/IvanHoe/Firebird are all close derivatives of R3 and no amount of slobbering is going to change that fact. And finally, let's all move on.

Graham Banks · Post by **Graham Banks** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:12 am

garybelton wrote:QED then. Ippolit/RobboLito/Igorrit/IvanHoe/Firebird are all close derivatives of R3

............which just happens to be a closed source engine.
Good that somebody has finally fessed up.

Cheers,
Graham.

slobo · Post by **slobo** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:39 am

lkaufman wrote:PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Komodo - Rybka in Danger?
lkaufman wrote: slobo wrote:

"2. the presence of these tables is sufficient to call Ippolit derivates clones?

3. Is the evaluation funcion really Rybka's property or it was borrowed by Fruit?"

Regarding point 2, I prefer to use the term "derivative" rather than clone since they are not identical, but slightly modified.
Regarding point 3, I don't know anything about the differences between Fruit and Rybka 1, as I joined Rybka in the middle of Rybka 2. But I can say that the Rybka 3 eval is quite different in most respects from the eval when I joined the team, as I was given full responsibility for all numerical values of existing terms as well as proposing the huge number of new terms added to make Rybka 3. So regardless of any similarities in the eval that may or may not exist between Rybka 1 and Fruit, the eval in Rybka 3 is original work, Vas doing the coding and I setting the values. It was my opinion that the eval in Rybka 1 was in general quite poor (Vas disagrees with this) and so I basically discarded most of it.
We made a little progress, Larry, and I decided to go ahead.
You base your claim of Ippo being Rybka's "derivative" on two similarities:

1. the king location tables
2. the evaluation funcion

Have you, or Rybka's team found such tables in RobboLito's codes?
If you have, then show us the part of Rybka's code with these tables and the problem is solved.

If you and Rybka's team decide not to show them we could suspect that it was Rybka's team that has stolen the king location tables from Ippo family.

Now you can say : I have no Rybka's code except the evaluation function.

Well, show us then your evaluation function, so that we can compare it with Robbo's evaluation function. Anyway, it is not secret anymore. You said that they are almost identical.

really Rybka's property or it was borrowed by Fruit?

mariaclara · Post by **mariaclara** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:01 am

hmmmmmmmmmmm.........................

someone is losing his cool.

running out of valid arguments?

name-calling

"jerks"

this is not acceptable in my humble opinion.

"I wouldn't be accepting posts with personal attacks like this, so you I guess you'd better hope I don't get elected."

Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Don wrote:
Albert Silver wrote:
slobo wrote:3. Is the evaluation funcion really Rybka's property or it was borrowed by Fruit?

Slobo
You know, I looked up the old threads with the claims Rybka Beta was taken from Fruit. And even the 'evidence'. I participated in these discussions at the time, and was wondering now why my memory was that the accusations were pure bunk. Having re-read the threads, I now remember. The 'evidence' was not anything related to Fruit's search or evaluation, rather it was on the UCI code.

Those who were desperate to shoot Vas down, no doubt envious of his achievements, claimed that any code taken was forbidden and unethical. I, and some others, argued that to claim Rybka was a clone of any kind based on UCI code was utterly stupid, since when one speaks of clone, one presumes playing strength, knowledge and ability, not how it sends its moves. One could perfectly well argue that taking the UCI code, if true, was wrong, but not that this constituted proof of any kind that it was a clone.

The accusers then claimed they would present a large sample of proof, but this proof never materialized. We are told there is clear proof, but it is a secret. Secret proof.
As far as I know Vas still has code that is closed source, so he has not way to prove anything publicly without giving away his source code.

Of course nobody seems to think he has that right to keep his own code secret.

Of course he could show you sections of that code, in which case you will say that he faked it.

So you guys are being jerks by demanding that he reveal his proof to you and casting him as a false accuser and unethical. The victim is the unethical one because he will not make his code public to you.
But he said lately that he doesn't have Rybka 3 code anymore hence not releasing Rybka 3+
What's going on here,you lie and then you forge that you've lied and get yourself in a messy situation

Please don'r offend the respected members here by calling them jerks just because they want eveidence and your friend Vasik is a liar that can't provide one....
Dr.D

Don · Post by **Don** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:08 am

slobo wrote:
If you and Rybka's team decide not to show them we could suspect that it was Rybka's team that has stolen the king location tables from Ippo family.

I wondered if it would come down to this. Not only is Vas guility of slander, but it was actually Vas who stole the code from Ippolitto! I'll bet Vas was also somehow involved in those faked moon landings too. Finally the truth comes out.

Graham Banks · Post by **Graham Banks** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:11 am

Don wrote:
slobo wrote:
If you and Rybka's team decide not to show them we could suspect that it was Rybka's team that has stolen the king location tables from Ippo family.

I wondered if it would come down to this. Not only is Vas guility of slander, but it was actually Vas who stole the code from Ippolitto! I'll bet Vas was also somehow involved in those faked moon landings too. Finally the truth comes out.

Yep - he should change his signature. Good intentions bah!

Hopefully, a lot more members can now see the whole sham for what it is.

Albert Silver · Post by **Albert Silver** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:18 am

slobo wrote:If you and Rybka's team decide not to show them we could suspect that it was Rybka's team that has stolen the king location tables from Ippo family.

Only if Vas had a time machine since his program came out about a year and a half earlier.

Graham Banks · Post by **Graham Banks** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:20 am

Albert Silver wrote:
slobo wrote:If you and Rybka's team decide not to show them we could suspect that it was Rybka's team that has stolen the king location tables from Ippo family.
Only if Vas had a time machine since his program came out about a year and a half earlier.

Good one. The eel is squirming, but it can't get loose.