apple M1 Pro

[Magnum]

Back in 2020, I bought a new apple pro with the 2.3ghz intel i7 processor, and used it a lot. But earlier this year, I decided that I wanted to play around with the ARM architecture, which is a cousin of the Sun Sparc, MIPS, etc (the so-called RISC computers that I prefer to call "load store" architectures.)

So, last week I went and traded in my 2020 MacBook pro for a new 2022 MacBook pro with the new M1 Pro chip (8 performance cores, 2 efficiency cores, 16 GPU cores.). I was not really sure what to expect but I wanted to fiddle with ARM.

So, first thing I noticed was it is _really_ fast. IE running Crafty with 8 cores produces similar numbers compared to the Intel 20 core Nehlam machine I used right before I retired. Crafty is reaching beyond 80M NPS which I didn't expect.

So, in summary, it is really a good development platform that is faster than any laptop ought to be. Bit pricey, but works flawlessly. I've removed ALL asm code from crafty and am now using built-in functions for msb() and such. About the only quirk is that using a built in spin lock requires you to include a builtin barrier() as the ARM / M1 architecture is beginning to play fast and loose with memory write ordering to improve speed. It can compile the entire crafty source (one big file) in about 2.5 seconds, for example.)

highly recommended. And it appears that since the load/store architecture is the future, it's worth consideration.

The M1 is the best chip Apple ever created.
Chess and everything works fine for me, you and others.

[towforce]

I think The Register is a relatively reliable source, so it looks as though the M2 might be on its way!

https://www.theregister.com/2022/04/16/apple_m2_chips/

[Modern Times]

The M1 is the best chip Apple ever created.
Chess and everything works fine for me, you and others.

Yes, Apple have been creating their own mobile SOCs for a long time, so have huge expertise in this area. Making theIr own CPU for MacOs was a logical step, and they have experience of what is needed when changing architecture from when they went from PowerPC to Intel. As usual with Apple they are massively over-hyped, but nevertheless very impressive CPUs and must have come as a shock to AMD and Intel. Performance is strong, but their strongest point is power efficiency, which is very important today. Unfortunately you have to pay Apple's inflated prices, use their minority O/S and be locked into their Ecosystem and suffer less availability of apps, all of which are red lines for me.

[towforce]

highly recommended. And it appears that since the load/store architecture is the future, it's worth consideration.

The "architecture of the future" is used in all ARM CPUs, and actually goes back to 1964 - link.

[Ras]

come as a shock to AMD and Intel.

Remember that the M1 is produced at TSMC in 5nm while AMD is still on TSMC 7nm. That has nothing to do with the architecture, and Zen4 will also be in 5nm. It's worse for Intel, given their longstanding problems to reach Intel 10nm which they claim is equivalent to TSMC's 7nm. Means, Intel may face the same catch-up problem again with their production process.

[bob]

I'll explain what that means. It means that you're providing meaningless facts as arguments in favor of and trying to justify your purchase. You're disregarding any other modern hardware and only compare it to either an older apple device with known issues or a 15 year old CPU. You run an ancient engine and praise M1 for a single result that's just outside your expectations. This is on topic because your post is nothing but an advertisement for apple.

first, it was NOT trying to justify my purchase. I don't need to do that since I bought it of my own free will. I posted the result because the NPS represents a pretty amazing number for a laptop. May be faster ones today. But probably not by a lot. Wasn't intended to be (nor was it) an advertisement for Apple. It was simply MY PERSONAL ESPERIENCE with the machine, nothing more, nothing less... Talk about a "troll?" pot, kettle.

[bob]

Back in 2020, I bought a new apple pro with the 2.3ghz intel i7 processor, and used it a lot. But earlier this year, I decided that I wanted to play around with the ARM architecture, which is a cousin of the Sun Sparc, MIPS, etc (the so-called RISC computers that I prefer to call "load store" architectures.)

So, last week I went and traded in my 2020 MacBook pro for a new 2022 MacBook pro with the new M1 Pro chip (8 performance cores, 2 efficiency cores, 16 GPU cores.). I was not really sure what to expect but I wanted to fiddle with ARM.

So, first thing I noticed was it is _really_ fast. IE running Crafty with 8 cores produces similar numbers compared to the Intel 20 core Nehlam machine I used right before I retired. Crafty is reaching beyond 80M NPS which I didn't expect.

So, in summary, it is really a good development platform that is faster than any laptop ought to be. Bit pricey, but works flawlessly. I've removed ALL asm code from crafty and am now using built-in functions for msb() and such. About the only quirk is that using a built in spin lock requires you to include a builtin barrier() as the ARM / M1 architecture is beginning to play fast and loose with memory write ordering to improve speed. It can compile the entire crafty source (one big file) in about 2.5 seconds, for example.)

highly recommended. And it appears that since the load/store architecture is the future, it's worth consideration.

Is that with the bench test ?

I get around 9.1M NPS for 25.3 and 1 thread here on my AMD 5800HS here - that is with an windows compile from here https://github.com/MichaelB7/Crafty/releases

that was with the same Cray Blitz vs somebody positions I used when testing on the 20 core intel box. Running bench 5 with mt=8 produces 75.5M nps.
Bench with no multithreading produces 11.8Mo nps...

[bob]

highly recommended. And it appears that since the load/store architecture is the future, it's worth consideration.

The "architecture of the future" is used in all ARM CPUs, and actually goes back to 1964 - link.

Bunch of such architectures. Cray Research. Sun Sparc. MIPS. Etc. Didn't say it was "new" but that it has become the way forward. Just look under the hood at any Intel processor over the past 20 years or so. "micro-ops" they call 'em. RISC/load-store is what everyone else has been calling 'em.

[bob]

come as a shock to AMD and Intel.

Remember that the M1 is produced at TSMC in 5nm while AMD is still on TSMC 7nm. That has nothing to do with the architecture, and Zen4 will also be in 5nm. It's worse for Intel, given their longstanding problems to reach Intel 10nm which they claim is equivalent to TSMC's 7nm. Means, Intel may face the same catch-up problem again with their production process.

just saw where TSMC has announced that their 3nm production is ready and will start producing chips this fall (most likely for Apple's next gen or else new versions of M2...

[mvanthoor]

I'll explain what that means. It means that you're providing meaningless facts as arguments in favor of and trying to justify your purchase. You're disregarding any other modern hardware and only compare it to either an older apple device with known issues or a 15 year old CPU. You run an ancient engine and praise M1 for a single result that's just outside your expectations. This is on topic because your post is nothing but an advertisement for apple.

Even if you are correct and are a good programmer yourself, there's no need to be that rude to someone who basically helped to invent most of the stuff you, I, and hundreds of other chess programmers now take for granted. It just comes across as arrogant and entitled.

Being annoyed because Bob likes Crafty and ARM (and by extension, what Apple did with it) is similar to being annoyed with Ken Thompson liking C and Unix (and by extension, probably, Linux).