hgm wrote:This has been done before, (indeed on Rybka forum), and the results were not as extreme as what you report. In a far larger number of games the white advantage was ~72%, IIRC. This is in good agreement with what I found in self-play tests of Fairy-Max or Joker, and seemed almost completely independent on the level of play.
Ok, but seems to depend on the time control (more equal at longer TC, therefore depends on the level?). So, a 2900 Elo FIDE level seems plausible for present top engines on a quad? I am bit surprised (the commonly accepted level is >3000).
Kai
Actually i tested Rybka without full pawn and its performance was approx.240 elo weaker than Rybka (default-with all peaces)
Thanks, if I understood, there are to add 15 points to your result from "side" handicap, and another maybe 15 points from the fact that it's e7 and not f7, therefore maybe 270 points difference as compared to 300 mine, within our error margins (your games are more relevant, though).
hgm wrote:This has been done before, (indeed on Rybka forum), and the results were not as extreme as what you report. In a far larger number of games the white advantage was ~72%, IIRC. This is in good agreement with what I found in self-play tests of Fairy-Max or Joker, and seemed almost completely independent on the level of play.
Ok, but seems to depend on the time control (more equal at longer TC, therefore depends on the level?). So, a 2900 Elo FIDE level seems plausible for present top engines on a quad? I am bit surprised (the commonly accepted level is >3000).
Kai
Actually i tested Rybka without full pawn and its performance was approx.240 elo weaker than Rybka (default-with all peaces)
Thanks, if I understood, there are to add 15 points to your result from "side" handicap, and another maybe 15 points from the fact that it's e7 and not f7, therefore maybe 270 points difference as compared to 300 mine, within our error margins (your games are more relevant, though).
Kai
It is not clear to me how you get only 15 elo.
I think that the elo difference between e7 and f7 is more than 15 elo and I also think that the elo difference for side to move in the opening is more than 15 elo.
Thanks, if I understood, there are to add 15 points to your result from "side" handicap, and another maybe 15 points from the fact that it's e7 and not f7, therefore maybe 270 points difference as compared to 300 mine, within our error margins (your games are more relevant, though).
Kai
It is not clear to me how you get only 15 elo.
I think that the elo difference between e7 and f7 is more than 15 elo and I also think that the elo difference for side to move in the opening is more than 15 elo.
If I understood, I have to take the side to move advantage divided by 2, as he has no preferred side, so 30/2 points, is that right or I am messing up something? Maybe you are right that the Elo difference from e7 to f7 is more than 15 points, I don't know, but if you are right, then mine and Sedat results are even closer (and both somehow larger than HGM numbers from the Rybka forum).
I think that 30 elo for the side to move(not divided by 2) may be correct for the opening position but it does not mean that it is correct for a position when one side does not have the f pawn.
Uri Blass wrote:I think that 30 elo for the side to move(not divided by 2) may be correct for the opening position but it does not mean that it is correct for a position when one side does not have the f pawn.
Right, and this is testable, but I am not willing to spend time on this, the main point is that Sedat result and mine are similar, the bigger problem is to quantify the f7 pawn for humans. I would like also to have an idea of what a handicap of a taking back move means in Elo (probably depends even heavier on the players).
