Clash of the Titans

Discussion of computer chess matches and engine tournaments.

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bhlangonijr
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Re: Clash of the Titans

Post by bhlangonijr » Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:53 am

Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
lech wrote:My first impression is that there are two very powerful engines Houdini and Komodo. Both have a solid strategy (static evoluation), and this can not be completely offset by the time (depths) in contrast to tactics.
Full of holes Stockfish's strategy confirms the end of this engine.
Here I fully agree....

It would take a radical approach from the side of Stockfish team to make a considerable improvement....
Dr.D
Yeah... I'd vote for them quitting their real jobs and start living for "the cause": Make Stockfish, an open source and free program, stronger than the commercial ones... wow I am starting to get goosebumps.... :)

Have you guys ever considered they (Tord, Marco & Joona) have already done an amazing job, putting an open source program among the top ones, spending their valuable spare time for nothing in exchange?

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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Location: Amman,Jordan

Re: Clash of the Titans

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:36 am

bhlangonijr wrote:
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
lech wrote:My first impression is that there are two very powerful engines Houdini and Komodo. Both have a solid strategy (static evoluation), and this can not be completely offset by the time (depths) in contrast to tactics.
Full of holes Stockfish's strategy confirms the end of this engine.
Here I fully agree....

It would take a radical approach from the side of Stockfish team to make a considerable improvement....
Dr.D
Yeah... I'd vote for them quitting their real jobs and start living for "the cause": Make Stockfish, an open source and free program, stronger than the commercial ones... wow I am starting to get goosebumps.... :)

Have you guys ever considered they (Tord, Marco & Joona) have already done an amazing job, putting an open source program among the top ones, spending their valuable spare time for nothing in exchange?
I know how it's difficult to further improve a chess engine especially at this top level....

But even though I am not a programmer,I have my own observations in general regarding the current status of the rngine and I share it so that it might help the authors in their work over the engine :D
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

Vinvin
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:40 am

Re: Clash of the Titans

Post by Vinvin » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:34 am

An amazing endgame (Q vs RBN) and different eval between SF and Komodo :

[Event "Komodo-Stockfish"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2012.03.18"]
[Round "60.1"]
[White "Stockfish 2.2.2 SSE42 [t=1]"]
[Black "Komodo64 SSE Version 4"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C93"]
[Annotator "0.32;0.12"]
[PlyCount "194"]
[EventDate "2012.03.05"]
[EventType "tourn"]

{AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 905e Processor 2999 MHz W=27.4 plies; 1.333kN/s B=24.3
plies; 1.003kN/s} 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5
7. Bb3 d6 8. c3 O-O 9. h3 Bb7 10. d4 Re8 11. Nbd2 Bf8 12. a3 h6 13. Bc2 Nb8 14.
b4 Nbd7 15. Bb2 Nb6 {[%eval 12,20] [%emt 0:03:01]} 16. dxe5 {[%eval 32,24]
[%emt 0:11:03] (Rb1)} dxe5 {[%eval -2,21] [%emt 0:01:02]} 17. c4 {[%eval 60,26]
[%emt 0:04:39]} c5 {[%eval 48,22] [%emt 0:06:31]} 18. cxb5 {[%eval 36,27]
[%emt 0:01:36] (Nxe5)} axb5 {[%eval 14,18] [%emt 0:00:20]} 19. Nxe5 {[%eval 44,
26] [%emt 0:04:56]} Nfd7 {[%eval 12,23] [%emt 0:06:16] (c4)} 20. Ng4 {[%eval
64,23] [%emt 0:06:19] (Nxd7)} Na4 {[%eval 16,20] [%emt 0:03:39] (Re6)} 21. Bxa4
{[%eval 84,25] [%emt 0:04:29]} Rxa4 {[%eval 17,23] [%emt 0:04:43]} 22. Re3 {
[%eval 64,26] [%emt 0:06:03]} Ra6 {[%eval 31,24] [%emt 0:06:29]} 23. Rd3 {
[%eval 36,26] [%emt 0:04:12]} Qc7 {[%eval 26,23] [%emt 0:04:29]} 24. Nb1 {
[%eval 48,25] [%emt 0:03:25]} Bc8 {[%eval 19,22] [%emt 0:01:43] (Rd6)} 25. Nc3
{[%eval 76,23] [%emt 0:05:10]} Qb7 {[%eval 62,23] [%emt 0:08:14]} 26. Rg3 {
[%eval 129,26] [%emt 0:01:52]} Rg6 {[%eval 40,22] [%emt 0:01:23]} 27. Nd5 {
[%eval 80,26] [%emt 0:05:29]} h5 {[%eval 53,23] [%emt 0:03:23]} 28. Nge3 {
[%eval 76,26] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rxg3 {[%eval 52,21] [%emt 0:01:21]} 29. fxg3 {
[%eval 88,25] [%emt 0:00:53]} Qc6 {[%eval 55,23] [%emt 0:05:00] (Rxe4)} 30.
Qxh5 {[%eval 137,27] [%emt 0:05:31]} Rxe4 {[%eval 64,25] [%emt 0:03:26]} 31.
Rd1 {[%eval 84,27] [%emt 0:03:48]} Qe6 {[%eval 63,24] [%emt 0:00:47] (Bb7)} 32.
Bxg7 {[%eval 141,27] [%emt 0:03:30]} Bxg7 {[%eval 70,25] [%emt 0:02:57]} 33.
Nf5 {[%eval 169,28] [%emt 0:01:09]} Kf8 {[%eval 63,24] [%emt 0:02:47]} 34. Nde7
{[%eval 161,28] [%emt 0:02:57]} Re1+ {[%eval 70,23] [%emt 0:00:07]} 35. Kh2 {
[%eval 157,28] [%emt 0:03:54]} Rxd1 {[%eval 71,25] [%emt 0:00:26]} 36. Qh7 {
[%eval 157,27] [%emt 0:00:00]} Qxe7 {[%eval 71,24] [%emt 0:02:23]} 37. Qxg7+ {
[%eval 185,24] [%emt 0:00:00]} Ke8 {[%eval 69,22] [%emt 0:00:17]} 38. Nxe7 {
[%eval 189,27] [%emt 0:01:47]} Kxe7 {[%eval 79,25] [%emt 0:00:01]} 39. bxc5 {
[%eval 153,27] [%emt 0:07:18]} Rd5 {[%eval 78,27] [%emt 0:04:55]} 40. c6 {
[%eval 193,30] [%emt 0:04:21]} Nf6 {[%eval 59,27] [%emt 0:00:34]} 41. Qh6 {
[%eval 210,30] [%emt 0:08:06]} Be6 {[%eval 86,27] [%emt 0:04:18]} 42. Qe3 {
[%eval 177,31] [%emt 0:00:00]} Ne8 {[%eval 93,26] [%emt 0:01:31]} 43. Qb6 {
[%eval 177,31] [%emt 0:02:25]} Nd6 {[%eval 79,25] [%emt 0:03:54]} 44. Qa7+ {
[%eval 181,30] [%emt 0:00:00] (Qa5)} Kf6 {[%eval 88,25] [%emt 0:03:36] (Ke8)}
45. h4 {[%eval 238,24] [%emt 0:03:51] (g4)} Nc4 {[%eval 40,21] [%emt 0:00:41]
(Ke5)} 46. g4 {[%eval 200,26] [%emt 0:07:20] (c7)} Bxg4 {[%eval 63,25] [%emt 0:
05:23] (Ne5)} 47. Qb8 {[%eval 202,24] [%emt 0:02:51] (Qa8)} Nd6 {[%eval 62,26]
[%emt 0:05:50]} 48. Qd8+ {[%eval 206,31] [%emt 0:00:00] (Qg8)} Kg7 {[%eval 30,
26] [%emt 0:02:14]} 49. c7 {[%eval 206,32] [%emt 0:01:39]} Be6 {[%eval 29,26]
[%emt 0:02:40]} 50. Kg1 {[%eval 206,33] [%emt 0:00:08]} Rd1+ {[%eval 28,25]
[%emt 0:04:03] (Bc8)} 51. Kf2 {[%eval 181,26] [%emt 0:01:33]} Rd2+ {[%eval 25,
24] [%emt 0:00:54]} 52. Ke3 {[%eval 206,27] [%emt 0:03:48]} Rd5 {[%eval 27,26]
[%emt 0:02:18]} 53. g3 {[%eval 177,28] [%emt 0:02:42] (Kf4)} Kh7 {[%eval 14,24]
[%emt 0:05:33] (Nf5+)} 54. Kf3 {[%eval 133,25] [%emt 0:03:45]} Rd4 {[%eval 11,
26] [%emt 0:00:49]} 55. h5 {[%eval 125,28] [%emt 0:02:21]} Rd3+ {[%eval 5,25]
[%emt 0:01:38]} 56. Ke2 {[%eval 113,29] [%emt 0:03:23] (Kg2)} Rd5 {[%eval 5,24]
[%emt 0:00:49]} 57. Qf8 {[%eval 113,29] [%emt 0:02:22] (Ke3)} Nc8 {[%eval -5,
26] [%emt 0:02:20] (Re5+)} 58. h6 {[%eval 8,29] [%emt 0:01:47]} Rg5 {[%eval -5,
28] [%emt 0:00:26]} 59. Kf2 {[%eval 0,34] [%emt 0:02:16]} Rg6 {[%eval -5,28]
[%emt 0:01:54] (Rf5+)} 60. Qd8 {[%eval 12,26] [%emt 0:02:03]} Bg4 {[%eval -5,
25] [%emt 0:00:08] (Rxh6)} 61. Qe8 {[%eval 48,28] [%emt 0:02:01] (Ke3)} Rf6+ {
[%eval -24,27] [%emt 0:01:47]} 62. Kg1 {[%eval 32,31] [%emt 0:01:02]} Nd6 {
[%eval -17,28] [%emt 0:00:47]} 63. Qd8 {[%eval 4,31] [%emt 0:04:05]} Rxh6 {
[%eval -23,29] [%emt 0:02:45] (Rg6)} 64. Kf2 {[%eval 0,31] [%emt 0:01:14]} Kg7
{[%eval -26,26] [%emt 0:00:57]} 65. Qg5+ {[%eval 0,32] [%emt 0:00:17] (Ke3)}
Rg6 {[%eval -54,22] [%emt 0:00:09]} 66. Qd8 {[%eval 0,30] [%emt 0:01:10] (Qe5+)
} Nc8 {[%eval -45,25] [%emt 0:02:16] (Bc8)} 67. Qd5 {[%eval 0,28] [%emt 0:01:
24]} Nd6 {[%eval -56,25] [%emt 0:00:09]} 68. Qe5+ {[%eval 0,31] [%emt 0:01:26]}
Kh7 {[%eval -49,26] [%emt 0:00:14] (Kg8)} 69. Qe7 {[%eval 0,33] [%emt 0:01:07]}
Rf6+ {[%eval -53,26] [%emt 0:01:01] (Kg7)} 70. Kg1 {[%eval 0,31] [%emt 0:01:02]
} Kg6 {[%eval -60,26] [%emt 0:01:03] (Rh6)} 71. Qe3 {[%eval 0,29] [%emt 0:01:
01]} Bc8 {[%eval -56,25] [%emt 0:00:18] (Kh7)} 72. Qd3+ {[%eval -28,27] [%emt
0:03:20]} Kh6 {[%eval -53,26] [%emt 0:00:07]} 73. Qd2+ {[%eval -32,25] [%emt 0:
01:13] (Qd4)} Kh7 {[%eval -53,23] [%emt 0:00:28]} 74. Qg5 {[%eval -40,26]
[%emt 0:01:47] (Qd4)} Rg6 {[%eval -71,22] [%emt 0:00:17] (Re6)} 75. Qd8 {
[%eval -52,26] [%emt 0:01:47] (Qe5)} Rxg3+ {[%eval -90,20] [%emt 0:00:21]} 76.
Kf1 {[%eval -114,26] [%emt 0:02:01]} Rg6 {[%eval -90,25] [%emt 0:00:08]} 77.
Ke2 {[%eval -141,26] [%emt 0:00:38]} Re6+ {[%eval -92,24] [%emt 0:02:13] (Kg7)}
78. Kd3 {[%eval -80,24] [%emt 0:01:18]} Kg7 {[%eval -93,25] [%emt 0:01:01]} 79.
Qg5+ {[%eval -88,24] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rg6 {[%eval -93,24] [%emt 0:01:02]} 80.
Qe7 {[%eval -105,25] [%emt 0:00:55]} Be6 {[%eval -93,24] [%emt 0:01:11]} 81.
Qd8 {[%eval -133,24] [%emt 0:00:20] (Kc2)} Nc8 {[%eval -114,25] [%emt 0:01:54]}
82. Kc3 {[%eval -177,25] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rg4 {[%eval -125,25] [%emt 0:01:54]}
83. Kb2 {[%eval -210,27] [%emt 0:00:00]} b4 {[%eval -152,26] [%emt 0:02:48]}
84. axb4 {[%eval -298,29] [%emt 0:00:00]} Rxb4+ {[%eval -169,23] [%emt 0:01:00]
} 85. Ka1 {[%eval -311,30] [%emt 0:00:21] (Ka3)} Rg4 {[%eval -174,25] [%emt 0:
00:28]} 86. Kb1 {[%eval -331,31] [%emt 0:01:21]} Kg6 {[%eval -177,26] [%emt 0:
00:15] (f5)} 87. Kc1 {[%eval -347,23] [%emt 0:00:39] (Kc2)} Rc4+ {[%eval -178,
24] [%emt 0:00:28]} 88. Kd2 {[%eval -359,25] [%emt 0:00:03]} f5 {[%eval -178,
25] [%emt 0:00:33]} 89. Qe8+ {[%eval -355,28] [%emt 0:00:30]} Kf6 {[%eval -179,
23] [%emt 0:00:01]} 90. Qf8+ {[%eval -363,28] [%emt 0:01:33]} Ke5 {[%eval -185,
26] [%emt 0:00:16]} 91. Qd8 {[%eval -375,24] [%emt 0:00:12]} Re4 {[%eval -193,
25] [%emt 0:00:42] (Nd6)} 92. Kd1 {[%eval -395,24] [%emt 0:00:57] (Kd3)} Bd7 {
[%eval -198,24] [%emt 0:00:17] (Nd6)} 93. Qf8 {[%eval -460,26] [%emt 0:01:13]
(Qg8)} Kd5 {[%eval -220,24] [%emt 0:00:24]} 94. Qf6 {[%eval -468,26] [%emt 0:
00:44] (Qa3)} Nd6 {[%eval -224,23] [%emt 0:00:28] (Be6)} 95. Qc3 {[%eval -476,
25] [%emt 0:00:24]} Nc4 {[%eval -231,24] [%emt 0:01:26] (Bc8)} 96. Qb3 {[%eval
-492,24] [%emt 0:00:31] (Kc2)} Kd6 {[%eval -232,23] [%emt 0:01:19]} 97. Qg3+ {
[%eval -505,26] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kc6 {[%eval -235,24] [%emt 0:00:48]} 0-1

Cubeman
Posts: 644
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:11 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Clash of the Titans

Post by Cubeman » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:58 am

I just played through the game, was Stockfish trying too hard to win? The way it lost all the Kingside pawns on g2/g3/h4 for no compensation only to give Komodo a strong passed f pawn seems crazy.

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