New engine: Ippolit

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WinPooh
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Re: New engine: Ippolit

Post by WinPooh » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:49 am

Kirill Kryukov wrote:- A number of authors who are now still developing their own original free engines will lose interest to computer chess at all.
I think it's true only for sport-oriented authors. I doubt, for example, Dr. Hyatt will retire just because of fact there is something 50 points stronger than Rybka.

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Graham Banks
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Re: New engine: Ippolit

Post by Graham Banks » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:55 am

Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:There are at least 3 things now that will almost certainly happen that have far-reaching consequences:

- Within the year we will have a dozen of new and "entirely original" engines from little known authors that play at a level equal or better than Rybka 3.

- Pretty much the only person in the world who was developing chess engines full time will see his income cut severely and face the prospect of having to sue an anonymous Russian hacker for copyright violations (good luck...).

- Rybka 4 will probably appear with some insane copy-protection system instead of none at all in Rybka 3.

All the while some people will be blathering about how there is no proof this is a clone (even after clear-cut evidence shows up).
People who are happy to produce, promote or use illegal clones are a blight on our hobby. :(
I've come under a fair bit of heat from some for testing legal GPL derivatives, but I draw the line at illegal clones like Ippolit and Strelka.
I had the wool pulled over my eyes for a long time by all the arguments and counter arguments over Strelka. In hindsight I wish I'd never touched it.
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WinPooh
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Re: New engine: Ippolit

Post by WinPooh » Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:04 am

hgm wrote:There have been threads very much like this one in the past, and then, the next day, they will have magicaly disappeared. As, no doubt, will happen to this one.
The thread is still here. What a surprise :)

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Graham Banks
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Re: New engine: Ippolit

Post by Graham Banks » Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:11 am

WinPooh wrote:
hgm wrote:There have been threads very much like this one in the past, and then, the next day, they will have magicaly disappeared. As, no doubt, will happen to this one.
The thread is still here. What a surprise :)
To some of us, it's shameful that it's still here. However, the cat (or should I say fish) is well and truly out of the bag now anyway.
Moderators have to make some tough decisions at times and we should accept their ruling.
Having been a moderator, I know that you're on a hiding to nothing, no matter how you decide to act over controversial issues. You'll please some and upset others regardless.
The last couple of moderation teams have done a good job overall in my opinion.

Cheers,
Graham.
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George Tsavdaris
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Re: New engine: Ippolit

Post by George Tsavdaris » Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:17 am

SzG wrote:
Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: - Rybka 4 will probably appear with some insane copy-protection system instead of none at all in Rybka 3.
Does copy-protection prevent disassembling?
Delays (considerably) i would say....
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WinPooh
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Re: New engine: Ippolit

Post by WinPooh » Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:17 am

Graham Banks wrote:Having been a moderator, I know that you're on a hiding to nothing, no matter how you decide to act over controversial issues. You'll please some and upset others regardless.
True. As one of moderators at kasparovchess I can confirm this. I remember the similar situation with Strelka two years ago.

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George Tsavdaris
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Re: New engine: Ippolit

Post by George Tsavdaris » Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:26 am

Graham Banks wrote: People who are happy to produce, promote or use illegal clones are a blight on our hobby. :(
I disagree. I disagree only on "use".

If someone manages to disassemble Rybka 3 for example and produce the code of it and improve the code and make it 50 points stronger than Rybka 3 then i would be very interested to use it(having first bought Rybka 3 of course).
Why? Because i'm interested in better Ches engines and better analysis.


As for releasing the disassembled code of Rybka 3 it's not a good thing after just 1.5 year, but who really has to put the limit of when the code should be released?
You will ask now: And why it should be released at all? Well for scientific reasons. I'm absolutely in the science direction. And science direction promotes sharing of ideas and scientific things. Sharing everything!

Of course that will hurt Vas as he would lose money, so there should be some kind of restriction to sharing. I guess it has to be sharing with a delay, of about 2-3 years time, in order Vas to have made all the money he can from Rybka 3 and also to have a clear advantage of 2-3 years in development when others see the code and the ideas of Rybka 3.
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George Tsavdaris
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Re: New engine: Ippolit

Post by George Tsavdaris » Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:35 am

perejaslav wrote:An excellent stuff. This engine is really stronger than Rybka 3 in about 40-50 ELO points as they told on the IPOLITE site!! :shock:
very aggressive engine.
it is not a clone of R3 because clone can not be so MUCH stronger than original!
This is totally wrong and from the way you talk i think you know it too. :lol:
For example Rybka 3 is a clone of Rybka 2.3.2a and Rybka 3 is definitelly better than R2.3.2a.

As for cloning accusations... Plz provide the evidence before to make a SO false statement!
Some things require no 100% evidence to be thought as correct. You should just rely on probability a thing can happen.
If it's a probability of 99.999% then you say you have strong evidence that this thing happens. Not a proof but still.

And the evidence for Ippolite to be a clone of Rybka 3 is that it's really so strong. Oh and the "zero" thought moves too. From its games i see that it too moves instantly on some non-forced occasions. I know only Rybka 3 that does that consistently.
2 coincidences make a strong evidence.
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Sylwy
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Re: New engine: A question

Post by Sylwy » Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:44 am

Hi all !

I'm not a professional programmer !
Ipollit .exe has only 286.720 bytes- Rybka 3 has much,much more !
In my overnight test ( 100 games) in blitz (4'+2") Ipollit performed better than Rybka 3 !
Let me know -please- a short explanation !
They are a lot of commercial chess engines .Nobody claimed to be clones. Nobody has access to their source codes.The lack of access is a chastity certificate ? Some progressed very slowly along the years with a suspect progress after Rybka's ascension. Maybe the original code has nothing to do with the ultimate release of these engines ! Nobody ask nothing ! Of course was a long scandal with Rybka ......but without any reasonable proof.
To be a commercial chess engine means an honesty status ?
To be on disgrace of someone ( :lol: ) on this site is enough that your engine to be considered a clone ?
Rybka itself was a shock for some considered oneself intelligent people !
Naum was another shock !
The first two chess engines in our world were disputed a lot !
The link to Ipollite was deleted. Ok ! Maybe is a clone ! The proofs please !

Regards,
Silvian

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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: New engine: Ippolit

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:59 am

SzG wrote:
Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: - Rybka 4 will probably appear with some insane copy-protection system instead of none at all in Rybka 3.
Does copy-protection prevent disassembling?
Of course not....
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

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