On the ownership of TakChess

[amanjpro]

Session persistence did not work properly with free Cloudflare as front end, plus the poorly implemented regional blocks which never actually worked. Now here comes inspiration, so now I host some SF data, some Leela data, TCEC, tablebases and probably much more else, now I'm in business.


That said, here is my offer: so I can provide hosting and troubleshooting services up to industrial standard like everyone else have been using, probably even pay for your ransom should you fail to negotiate it over with, in return, I get to ban up to 3 random accounts at any given time solely at my discretion, do we have a deal?

I hope you are not serious! This is the most disgusting thing I have ever read on this forum! Please apologize for your arrogance

[noobpwnftw]

Are you sure this is more evil than your post is being sold as someone's property? Please apologize for your arrogance.

[AndrewGrant]

Session persistence did not work properly with free Cloudflare as front end, plus the poorly implemented regional blocks which never actually worked. Now here comes inspiration, so now I host some SF data, some Leela data, TCEC, tablebases and probably much more else, now I'm in business.


That said, here is my offer: so I can provide hosting and troubleshooting services up to industrial standard like everyone else have been using, probably even pay for your ransom should you fail to negotiate it over with, in return, I get to ban up to 3 random accounts at any given time solely at my discretion, do we have a deal?

I hope you are not serious! This is the most disgusting thing I have ever read on this forum! Please apologize for your arrogance

Deal

Best case: He bans me and then I don't have to read the posts of users X, Y, and Z.
Next Best case: He bans X, Y, and Z

[smatovic]

2cents:

- some core members create a legal entity/registered society 'Computer Chess Club r.s.'
- make a deal with Quentin regarding domain and database
- take fees from the society members to pay independent TC hosting

--
Srdja

[hgm]

Its me and others who founded this whole forum and made sure you and others can read if for many years that came after 1997.

Can you elaborate on that? Who are these 'others'?

It would be nice if they could appear here to shed some lights on the matter.

[Ras]

IMO Quentin has nothing, we dont need the domain name.

And have all links broken, especially external ones. Great idea.

The community has been blocked for NO REASON

Wrong. The reasons were explained over and over: dealing with attacks. Of course, IP range bans are a poor way to deal with that, but it's neither for "no reason" nor to deliberately harass TC members from specific regions. Part of the reason is that Quentin is hosting this for free and neither wants TC to impact his actual shop that he makes a living from, nor does he want to invest actual time and thus money to deal with it properly. His logic is getting rid of issues with the least amount of effort possible.

You can hardly criticise him for that, given that this exact same kind of logic underpinned already the founders' decision back then to even enter the domain and hosting situation that TC has been in for all these years.

make a deal with Quentin regarding domain and database

I thought we already have the database - that's what HGM used for testing. What's missing is the domain name. If the price is reasonable, I think that would be an OK deal. After all, who has been paying for the domain name renewal for all these years? Maybe... Quentin? That's an understandable reason why he would regard it as his property.

Now, a "society" would be a proper way to deal with that, but once you actually go that way, you'll find out why it hadn't been done like that all along. You need statutes in a legally acceptable form, which usually include certain required posts such as treasurer. These people are determined or elected as per the statutes, basically replicating the TC elections on yet another platform. Only that some jurisdictions prescribe annual member gatherings (real life or online) not only for elections, but also presenting the finance situation, discussing statute changes, all these administrative things.

Since money goes in and out, you also need to register with the relevant tax office, if only to prove to them that no taxes apply as per the local laws. That also implies the question which country the society should be founded in, and that determines who can even do the required posts. Just imagine a US fellow trying to deal with a French tax office.

[mclane]

The forum belongs to the members and it has to be democratically decided who moderates it.
It cannot be OWNED by one person. Otherwise its more hijacked then hosted.

In the moment you allow ONE person to be admin, moderator, owner of the server etc.
the free community develops into the opposite.

We had many years now success going the democratical way, from 1997 to 2021.

The path was on the other hand often in danger of beeing corrupted or exploited.
But was always brought back into the right direction.

[Ras]

The forum belongs to the members

Bla. "The members" are not a legal entity. They can own it morally, but not legally, and the domain name ownership is with the one who registered it.

In the moment you allow ONE person to be admin, moderator, owner of the server etc.
the free community develops into the opposite.

That "moment" was the founders' decision to enter this setup. Since you like to point out that you were one of them: why exactly did you hand over the domain and hosting in a way that you claim is undemocratic?

We had many years now success going the democratical way, from 1997 to 2021.

The situation hasn't changed. Only the fallout from the situation has.

[Guenther]

The forum belongs to the members and it has to be democratically decided who moderates it.
It cannot be OWNED by one person. Otherwise its more hijacked then hosted.

In the moment you allow ONE person to be admin, moderator, owner of the server etc.
the free community develops into the opposite.

You'll never understand - of course he never was a moderator... and also he just 'inherited' the whole thing from Steven Schwartz.

https://web.archive.org/web/19990224070 ... m/ccc.html

The posts on the Computer-Chess Club message board do not necessarily agree (nor disagree) with the opinions of Your Move Chess & Games, I.C.D. Corporation, or Computer Chess Reports, and these companies do not control, and have no say in, what is posted or how it is posted. Nor do any of these organizations have any say or control over decisions made by the moderators.

We had many years now success going the democratical way, from 1997 to 2021.

Yeah, we have seen how 'democratic' it was in several periods in time, especially remembering one with you as a 'moderator',
hopefully this will never happen again.

[mclane]

The forum belongs to the members

Bla. "The members" are not a legal entity. They can own it morally, but not legally, and the domain name ownership is with the one who registered it.

In the moment you allow ONE person to be admin, moderator, owner of the server etc.
the free community develops into the opposite.

That "moment" was the founders' decision to enter this setup. Since you like to point out that you were one of them: why exactly did you hand over the domain and hosting in a way that you claim is undemocratic?

We had many years now success going the democratical way, from 1997 to 2021.

The situation hasn't changed. Only the fallout from the situation has.

We did not hand it over.

The founders made a deal with one company. The company guaranteed not to interfere. Later an admin was implemented by the company. That was the moment it all went down the hill .
Suddenly the moderators were paper tigers. Even not existing, pro forma mentioned while in fact the admin did all.

No elections possible anymore.
Bans against the wish of moderators.

Therefore the situation clearly must go back to a democratical system.