Have engines updated for fide 2014 draw rules?

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Norm Pollock
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Have engines updated for fide 2014 draw rules?

Post by Norm Pollock » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:40 pm

Around 2002, Fide went back to the strict 50 move rule after experimenting with higher draw move limits. There was always a draw that took more moves than the Fide draw move limit. The current record is 517 moves. The history is in the link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty-move_rule

However in 2014, Fide made a relevant change. Although the 50 move was still in effect, it had to be applied by the player on the move. Sometimes, both players wish to continue on endlessly. To correct this, Fide in 2014, said 75 moves is the limit automatically even without players consent. Rule 9.6:

Code: Select all

9.6 	

If one or both of the following occur(s) then the game is drawn:

    the same position has appeared, as in 9.2b, for at least five consecutive alternate moves by each player.
    any consecutive series of 75 moves have been completed by each player without the movement of any pawn and without any capture. If the last move resulted in checkmate, that shall take precedence.
The rule also put a strict limit of five-fold repetitions of a position for a draw. The three-fold rule had to be applied by the player on the move. Now, after five-fold reps, it is an automatic draw.

My question is whether or not this new rule has been implemented in current chess engines. Right now many chess engines have an option for a strict 50-move draw, and automatically call a draw after 3-fold repetitions. And if the option for the 50-move draw is not checked, is a draw called after 75 moves?

Besides updating to conform to rule 9.6, it would be nice to have a research option that does not impose automatic draws except for stalemates and insufficient material.

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Guenther
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Re: Have engines updated for fide 2014 draw rules?

Post by Guenther » Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:31 pm

Norm Pollock wrote:Around 2002, Fide went back to the strict 50 move rule after experimenting with higher draw move limits. There was always a draw that took more moves than the Fide draw move limit. The current record is 517 moves. The history is in the link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty-move_rule

However in 2014, Fide made a relevant change. Although the 50 move was still in effect, it had to be applied by the player on the move. Sometimes, both players wish to continue on endlessly. To correct this, Fide in 2014, said 75 moves is the limit automatically even without players consent. Rule 9.6:

Code: Select all

9.6 	

If one or both of the following occur(s) then the game is drawn:

    the same position has appeared, as in 9.2b, for at least five consecutive alternate moves by each player.
    any consecutive series of 75 moves have been completed by each player without the movement of any pawn and without any capture. If the last move resulted in checkmate, that shall take precedence.
The rule also put a strict limit of five-fold repetitions of a position for a draw. The three-fold rule had to be applied by the player on the move. Now, after five-fold reps, it is an automatic draw.

My question is whether or not this new rule has been implemented in current chess engines. Right now many chess engines have an option for a strict 50-move draw, and automatically call a draw after 3-fold repetitions. And if the option for the 50-move draw is not checked, is a draw called after 75 moves?

Besides updating to conform to rule 9.6, it would be nice to have a research option that does not impose automatic draws except for stalemates and insufficient material.
IIRC the rules above were created for a Human arbiter.

jdart
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Re: Have engines updated for fide 2014 draw rules?

Post by jdart » Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:42 pm

The chess servers don't support this, so you have to at least support also the 3-move rule they follow.

--Jon

syzygy
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Re: Have engines updated for fide 2014 draw rules?

Post by syzygy » Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:04 pm

Norm Pollock wrote:Around 2002, Fide went back to the strict 50 move rule after experimenting with higher draw move limits.
Probably earlier than that, but amazingly no accurate history of FIDE rule changes has been kept?!
Although the 50 move was still in effect, it had to be applied by the player on the move.
Nothing changed here. Engines simply apply it (or rely on the GUI to do that for them). Since they do that, the new 75-move rule is of no relevance for engines.

Same for repetitions.
Right now many chess engines have an option for a strict 50-move draw, and automatically call a draw after 3-fold repetitions. And if the option for the 50-move draw is not checked, is a draw called after 75 moves?
At least all UCI engines have no choice but to assume that the GUI calls a draw on the 50th move or on the third repetition. So there is no such option (possible) in UCI engines.

Norm Pollock
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Re: Have engines updated for fide 2014 draw rules?

Post by Norm Pollock » Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:44 pm

The way I see it, the "75 move" rule is "ineffective" because the option of a "50 move" draw is still there between moves 51 and 75. For example, suppose players decline the "50 move" draw option when it first occurs, and play on. Suppose around the 70th move without capture or pawn move, player A suddenly sees danger ahead. So he exercises the "50 move" rule and the game is drawn. If neither player sees danger between moves 51 and 75, the game gets drawn anyway.

The "5-fold" rule is at least "effective". If the players decline the "3-fold" option, it is "game on" because the option expires if not used immediately. Like "en passant".

syzygy
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Re: Have engines updated for fide 2014 draw rules?

Post by syzygy » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:15 am

Norm Pollock wrote:The way I see it, the "75 move" rule is "ineffective" because the option of a "50 move" draw is still there between moves 51 and 75. For example, suppose players decline the "50 move" draw option when it first occurs, and play on. Suppose around the 70th move without capture or pawn move, player A suddenly sees danger ahead. So he exercises the "50 move" rule and the game is drawn. If neither player sees danger between moves 51 and 75, the game gets drawn anyway.

The "5-fold" rule is at least "effective". If the players decline the "3-fold" option, it is "game on" because the option expires if not used immediately. Like "en passant".
But the 50-move rule expires just the same once a capture or pawn move is played. And from a position that is a 3rd repetition the game is not unlikely to enter a position that is again a 3rd or even 4th repetition. So I don't see a big difference here.

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