Go has fallen to computer domination?

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Isaac
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Go has fallen to computer domination?

Post by Isaac » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:20 pm

5 games have been played between a new go program called Alphago (from google deepmind) against the top European champion. No handicap stone. The program won the 5 games.
Sources: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v5 ... 16961.html
Games can be downloaded at http://www.usgo.org/news/2016/01/alphag ... i-advance/.

In March it is said that Lee Sedol (regarded as the strongest go player in the world by many) will play Alphago.

What's next?

PK
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Re: Go has fallen to computer domination?

Post by PK » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:28 pm

It's a great achievement for computer go, but the difference between top European players and top Asians is probably like a difference between an IM and a GM. The best Polish player, Mateusz Surma, who has gained the newly created title of "Europaean professional" recently (there are only 4 or 6 of them) was far from the best in the Korean go school.

This being said, I looked at the game and its flow was surprisingly natural.

matthewlai
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Re: Go has fallen to computer domination?

Post by matthewlai » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:32 pm

Isaac wrote:5 games have been played between a new go program called Alphago (from google deepmind) against the top European champion. No handicap stone. The program won the 5 games.
Sources: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v5 ... 16961.html
Games can be downloaded at http://www.usgo.org/news/2016/01/alphag ... i-advance/.

In March it is said that Lee Sedol (regarded as the strongest go player in the world by many) will play Alphago.

What's next?
Videos available on DeepMind site:
http://deepmind.com/alpha-go.html
Disclosure: I work for DeepMind on the AlphaZero project, but everything I say here is personal opinion and does not reflect the views of DeepMind / Alphabet.

chetday
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Re: Go has fallen to computer domination?

Post by chetday » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:46 pm


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towforce
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Re: Go has fallen to computer domination?

Post by towforce » Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:22 pm

It is very important to note that Alphago is a knowledge-based system: in contrast to IBM's Deep Blue, Google have used deep neural networks.

Firstly, they learned from a database of existing games, then the system played millions of games against itself, steadily improving.

Human level intelligence is quickly coming into sight...
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Laskos
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Re: Go has fallen to computer domination?

Post by Laskos » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:11 pm

Fan Hui is 2p professional. 5-0 suggests at least 4p for AlphaGo. Also, it beats normal MC programs like Crazy Stone (say 5 dan on i7) by 99.8%, which suggests 8-10 more stones, also above 4p. This thing runs on 170 GPU cards and 1,200 standard processors, and assuming quadrupling for a stone, it has 5 stones advantage over normal hardware on KGS (say a cluster of 24 regular cores). Lee Sedol is above regular 9p. Let's see.

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Bloodbane
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Re: Go has fallen to computer domination?

Post by Bloodbane » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:16 pm

Laskos wrote:Also, it beats normal MC programs like Crazy Stone (say 5 dan on i7) by 99.8%, which suggests 8-10 more stones, also above 4p.
This was the most shocking part in my opinion.
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Laskos
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Re: Go has fallen to computer domination?

Post by Laskos » Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:26 pm

Bloodbane wrote:
Laskos wrote:Also, it beats normal MC programs like Crazy Stone (say 5 dan on i7) by 99.8%, which suggests 8-10 more stones, also above 4p.
This was the most shocking part in my opinion.
Yes, that's amazing.

I have a better estimate, using this site: http://senseis.xmp.net/?EGFRatingSystem . 99.8% against 6d Crazy Stone seems close to 500 ELO points (or whatever it's called). It means close to 5 stones. If 1p is ~ 8d , then 5 stones above Crazy Stone is about 4p. It seems to me AlphaGo will lose to Lee Sedol (9p).

PK
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Re: Go has fallen to computer domination?

Post by PK » Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:27 pm

IIRC professional go grades are not one handicap stone apart. More like 1/3 of a stone.

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Laskos
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Re: Go has fallen to computer domination?

Post by Laskos » Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:38 pm

PK wrote:IIRC professional go grades are not one handicap stone apart. More like 1/3 of a stone.
Thanks, I think that's correct. Then if AlphaGo is 5 stones above Crazy Stone, it should be close to 7-8p.

Wonder how much of this 5 stone advantage is due to those 170 GPU cards.
Last edited by Laskos on Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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