about next Sting

[lech]

After few (5!) months I tried again to return to my project.
It seems that a next door is opened and a new area appears befor me..
Befor the main goal (zero for draw positions) it is important too to get sacrifices lead to fortress as main (pv) move.
I think I got it. As you can see I don't use dirty "the rule 50" and any other trick.
[d]8/8/2pk4/8/p1p3B1/PpP5/1P6/r1NK4 w - - bm Bf5;

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info depth 43 seldepth 66 multipv 1 score cp -492 nodes 1399618533 nps 970545 time 1442094 pv g4f5 c6c5 d1d2 a1a2 c1a2 b3a2 d2c1 a2a1q f5b1 d6c7 c1c2 c7b6

BTW. Sting-sf-47 can solve it too thanks to the trapped piece detection, for that I turned the code off.

[Hurnavich]

Hi,

Nice work

[lech]

A few examples more.
BTW I am surpised that I am that wise.
(all i5 1024 hash 4 threads)
[d]2b1r3/r2ppN2/8/1p1p1k2/pP1P4/2P3R1/PP3PP1/2K5 w - - bm Nd6+;

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info depth 17 seldepth 25 multipv 1 score cp -391 nodes 4902176 nps 701212 time 6991 pv f7h6 f5f6 h6g4 f6e6 g3h3 d7d6 g4e3 e8f8 f2f3 c8b7 c1d2 a7a8 h3h6 e6d7 d2d3 a4a3 b2b3 f8h8 h6h8 a8h8 f3f4 e7e6 g2g4
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[d]3B4/1r2p3/r2p1p2/bkp1P1p1/1p1P1PPp/p1P4P/PPB1K3/8 w - - bm Ba4+;

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info depth 17 seldepth 0 multipv 1 score cp -820 upperbound nodes 12204763 nps 2
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[d]7r/p3k3/2p5/1pPp4/3P4/PP4P1/3P1PB1/2K5 w - - bm Kd1;

Code: Select all

info depth 32 seldepth 46 multipv 1 score cp -230 nodes 164544659 nps 5004704 time 32878 pv c1c2 h8h2 g2f3 h2f2 f3h5 f2g2 g3g4 g2g3 c2b2 a7a5 b2c2 e7f8 h5g6 g3g4 g6f5 g4g5 f5d7 g5g6 d7f5 g6f6 f5g4 f8e7 g4e2 f6g6 a3a4 b5a4 b3a4 g6g3 e2d3 e7f6 d3a6 g3g4 a6b7 g4d4 b7c6 d4c4 c2d3 c4c5 c6b7 f6e5 d3e2 e5e4
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[yanquis1972]

just wanted to say a quick thank you, as i have (what i hope is) the latest publically available sting & enjoy it quite a bit. it is unfortunately & imo bizarre that so few in computer chess purse knowledge for their programs instead of, or in addition to, pure strength.

[carldaman]

just wanted to say a quick thank you, as i have (what i hope is) the latest publically available sting & enjoy it quite a bit. it is unfortunately & imo bizarre that so few in computer chess purse knowledge for their programs instead of, or in addition to, pure strength.

Good observation, John. A hypothetical weaker well-rounded engine can be better than a stronger one with all sorts of glaring holes in its evaluation.
One big reason we don't see more such well-rounded engines is the "ratings rat race", where only changes that increase Elo are accepted.

Regards,
CL

[cdani]

Good observation, John. A hypothetical weaker well-rounded engine can be better than a stronger one with all sorts of glaring holes in its evaluation.
One big reason we don't see more such well-rounded engines is the "ratings rat race", where only changes that increase Elo are accepted.

It's well possible, and I would say it’s very likely, that when adjusting an engine only to increase Elo, in fact it’s going to some type of local maximum, or in other words it’s going to be overfitted as I commented recently.
This overfitting will make bigger the possible holes already in the engine, so in fact making it more vulnerable to newer developments or paradigm changes.

It’s no different from the development in any engineering area, where big investments in the area at some moment are overcome by some improvement that make useless those big investments and open new ways of work.
This does not deny the usefulness of such previous investments.

[Vinvin]

A few examples more.
BTW I am surpised that I am that wise.
...

Incredible, Marek !
I've never seen the 1st and the 3rd solved by an engine !
Great evolution for chess computers !

[zullil]

A few examples more.
BTW I am surpised that I am that wise.
...

Incredible, Marek !
I've never seen the 1st and the 3rd solved by an engine !
Great evolution for chess computers !

Is the third "solved"? The key move is correct, but the evaluation is wrong and, more importantly, so is the PV. I'd like to see a path to the fortress clearly displayed.

The fact that Ba4 was played suggests that Sting "sees" the solution, so perhaps Marek just needs to let the search go a bit more. In any case, interesting work---will see if I can compile Sting for Linux and investigate this on my own.

[Henk]

A few examples more.
BTW I am surpised that I am that wise.
...

Incredible, Marek !
I've never seen the 1st and the 3rd solved by an engine !
Great evolution for chess computers !

You are probably not an ELO counter.

[lech]

A few examples more.
BTW I am surpised that I am that wise.
...

Incredible, Marek !
I've never seen the 1st and the 3rd solved by an engine !
Great evolution for chess computers !

Is the third "solved"? The key move is correct, but the evaluation is wrong and, more importantly, so is the PV. I'd like to see a path to the fortress clearly displayed.

The fact that Ba4 was played suggests that Sting "sees" the solution, so perhaps Marek just needs to let the search go a bit more. In any case, interesting work---will see if I can compile Sting for Linux and investigate this on my own.

Vincent, you probably wrote about 2nd and 4th (not 1st and 3rd) examples ??
Belive me the area is very rich in possibilities, but I used it only to help some tough sacrifices to get a fortress as PV move.
It is very difficult to implement such spectacular events, they appear in chess games very rarely.

Louis, I think I did it in a safe way, but the PV lines can be a bit questionable, indeed. The next depths should clear it.
Sting-sf-48 is about ready to publish, I will try it in play only, but some serious negative ELO changes are not expected.
Project Sting goes on and I believe it is good for human way.