Sugar 2.0b x 64.0

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TShackel
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Sugar 2.0b x 64.0

Post by TShackel » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:15 pm

Hi all,

I wondered what you thought about sugar 2.0b 64 bit chess engine. On the owl rating list, it surpassed Komodo 8.0 in ratings! So this was a bit of a shock to me as it's number two after stockfish and above komodo 8.0 and houdini. I'm guessing most of you would assume it's a clone. But nevertheless, if it's better than Komodo 8.0 it deserves serious attention for all the major rating lists, because it's a big accomplishment for another programmer.

Any ideas about this engine and whether it's a clone or original? Even if it is a clear derivative, I still think I want to test it since it surpassed komodo. I hope it has a nice positional and attacking style and hopeful it might not look dumb in the king's indian, although I think that's a bit of wishful thinking.

Sincerely,

Tim.

TShackel
Posts: 313
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:09 pm
Location: Neenah, WI, United States

Re: Sugar 2.0b x 64.0

Post by TShackel » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:33 pm

Hi. I just found out this is a stockfish clone. So maybe it's not as impressive as I thought.

Sincerely,

Tim Shackel.

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reflectionofpower
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Re: Sugar 2.0b x 64.0

Post by reflectionofpower » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:06 am

Sweet name :lol:
"Without change, something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken." (Dune - 1984)

Lonnie

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Sylwy
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Re: Sugar 2.0b x 64.0

Post by Sylwy » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:10 am

TShackel wrote:
Any ideas about this engine and whether it's a clone or original ?

Sincerely,

Tim.
:lol:

S :wink: R

Guest71
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Re: Sugar 2.0b x 64.0

Post by Guest71 » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:11 am

This chess engine can Considered to be a simple "clone" or an engine Resulting from Stockfish engine? This is very important because we know many chess engine are "derived" from the others and, however, aren't considered "clones".
Regards

Guenther
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Re: Sugar 2.0b x 64.0

Post by Guenther » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:25 am

Guest71 wrote:This chess engine can Considered to be a simple "clone" or an engine Resulting from Stockfish engine? This is very important because we know many chess engine are "derived" from the others and, however, aren't considered "clones".
Regards
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Saturday, October 11, 2014
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Rank Chess Engine True ELO Raw ELO Diff Change Games Score% Win% Loss% Draw% Points Win Loss Draw %Time Forfeit TF Ply Count
1 Sugar 2.0b x64

consen
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Re: Sugar 2.0b x 64.0

Post by consen » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:35 am

I have testet newest version of Stockfish against Sugar.

Her is the result.


GUNNARPC, Blitz 1m+1s 0


1 Stockfish 231014 64 SSE4.2 +9 +32/=141/-27 51,25% 102,5/200
2 Sugar v2.0d x64 SSE4.2 -9 +27/=141/-32 48,75% 97,5/200

consen
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Re: Sugar 2.0b x 64.0

Post by consen » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:07 pm

GUNNARPC, Blitz 1m+1s 0


1 Stockfish 231014 64 SSE4.2 +6 +37/=177/-33 50,81% 125,5/247
2 Sugar v2.0d x64 SSE4.2 -6 +33/=177/-37 49,19% 121,5/247

TShackel
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Re: Sugar 2.0b x 64.0

Post by TShackel » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:28 pm

Guest71 wrote:This chess engine can Considered to be a simple "clone" or an engine Resulting from Stockfish engine? This is very important because we know many chess engine are "derived" from the others and, however, aren't considered "clones".
Regards
Yes, OWL list themselves call it a stockfish clone, that's where I found the answer to my own question.

Edit: Well I think it's a different engine, derived from stockfish, however it's very, very similar with more similar than original, and so they still call it a clone even though it's its own engine.

Tim.

TShackel
Posts: 313
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:09 pm
Location: Neenah, WI, United States

Re: Sugar 2.0b x 64.0

Post by TShackel » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:54 pm

consen wrote:GUNNARPC, Blitz 1m+1s 0


1 Stockfish 231014 64 SSE4.2 +6 +37/=177/-33 50,81% 125,5/247
2 Sugar v2.0d x64 SSE4.2 -6 +33/=177/-37 49,19% 121,5/247
Thanks for doing that. Yea, Sugar is very similar to stockfish and not quite as strong as stockfish. However it's stronger than other stockfish clones like Don. I'm not a programmer, so I don't know the exact similarities or differences from the official stockfish and sugar. I'm debating if I should test sugar in some tournaments or not. I really like original engines that earned their way up to being the strongest in the world. But I understand that stockfish was derived from glaurung as well.

I know that Houdini is influenced by ippolit, but I consider Houdini, Komodo, and Stockfish as distinctly different from one another, and it's nice to have very strong engines be very different from one another, but when you get lots of clones of the same engines you get all these strong engines with with the same character and that gets annoying. Fritz too is another great original program at least through version 13.0, now 14.0 is a pandix engine. Even if Fritz is not as strong as the other top engines now, it still offeres it's own distinct character, and I remember Fritz 7.0 was the only engine that could see all three king's indian theory moves (in the Nc6 d5 Ne7 variation), of b4, Ne1, and Nd2. Fritz 7.0 could see all three. All the top engines now can't see any, except for houdini whoh sees Ne1. So I love very different original programs that are very strong. But with the internet, and computer chess forums, and wiki programming, and open source engines, the trend is to get the top immediately by basing your work off of somebody else.

Thanks again.

Tim.

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