Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

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Who will win the four-game match?

Nakamura
5
7%
Stockfish
55
82%
Tie
7
10%
 
Total votes: 67

Nitro
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Location: California

Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

Post by Nitro » Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:52 am

One month after the very entertaining match between GM Naroditsky + Rybka and Stockfish (described here by Naroditsky: http://www.chess.com/article/view/how-r ... -the-world), we will be hosting another match with the best chess player in the United States: Hikaru Nakamura (FIDE 2787 Elo, and a remarkable 2906 Elo at Blitz).

The format will be similar, but not exactly the same. The first two games will be the same as the previous match: Nakamura will be able to use Rybka 3 on a 2008 MacBook to analyze moves in a 45'/30" match against the latest build of Stockfish on a current 8-core Mac Pro. Each side will play as white once, and Stockfish will have no opening book (and no tablebases).

For the last two games, Nakamura will play by himself (no help from Rybka), but he will have move-and-pawn odds against Stockfish. Specifically, he will play as white both games, and Stockfish will play black with one pawn removed. The pawn to be removed will be selected at random by rolling an 8-sided die before each of the two games. The time control will be the same as the first two games.

The actual games will be played on a physical chess board; I'll be making the moves on behalf of Stockfish.

We will be broadcasting the games live on chess.com, but we'd also like to invite any of you to attend the match in person, where you'll be able to see real-time mirrored feeds from both of the two computers, watch Nakamura play live, and interact with him and other chess fans.

The event is next Saturday (August 23) in Hillsborough, California (just a bit south of San Francisco). If you'd like to come, please RSVP here:

https://www.facebook.com/events/312975918877354/

We'll have complimentary snacks, lunch, and drinks.

In the meantime, feel free to vote on who you think will win the match!

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Graham Banks
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Re: Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

Post by Graham Banks » Sun Aug 17, 2014 5:19 am

Another excellent initiative. Thanks! :)
My email addresses:
gbanksnz at gmail.com
gbanksnz at yahoo.co.nz

Jhoravi
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Re: Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

Post by Jhoravi » Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:22 am

More and more interesting matches at my favorite Chess.com! :) BTW does 45´30" time control means 30 seconds increment?

Also interesting is the upcoming deathmatch Between Naka and Wesley So.

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reflectionofpower
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Re: Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

Post by reflectionofpower » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:19 am

The facebook page says different location:

Crystal Springs Uplands
400 Uplands Dr, Burlingame, California 94010
"hodie mihi, cras tibi"

Lonnie

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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:42 am

I don't consider the material odd games as a real game of chess....

It dosen't indicate anything usefull related to the opponents as it's simply an odd variation of the classic game of chess....

A chess game with time odds would be more reliable....

Anyway,thanks for organizing this exciting match....
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

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lucasart
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Re: Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

Post by lucasart » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:54 am

Nitro wrote: For the last two games, Nakamura will play by himself (no help from Rybka), but he will have move-and-pawn odds against Stockfish.
Poor Nakamura! He'll certainly lose both of these games. Perhaps, with the f-pawn, he stands a chance to get a draw.

As for the other games, same as Naroditsky. He'll probably manage to swindle a draw, and lose the rest (or lose them all...).

Anyway, Nakamura is brave to accept the challenge. Most GMs avoid computers because they fear humiliation...

PS: Make sure you use Contempt > 0 for Stockfish (testing shows that even Contempt=20cp has a negligible impact on elo against equal opposition). You don't want SF to allow a repetition out of the opening against a 2800 elo "patzer" :lol:
Theory and practice sometimes clash. And when that happens, theory loses. Every single time.

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reflectionofpower
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Re: Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

Post by reflectionofpower » Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:01 am

Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:I don't consider the material odd games as a real game of chess....

It dosen't indicate anything usefull related to the opponents as it's simply an odd variation of the classic game of chess....

A chess game with time odds would be more reliable....

Anyway,thanks for organizing this exciting match....
Dr.D
I agree and to make it a little more even how about using a 2011 0r 12 version of a chess program. You're giving him moderate software hoping it'll help a GM who without it would get pounded so what benefit is this? We're hoping it'll augment the human's abilities but they are already in the hole anyway so ...
"hodie mihi, cras tibi"

Lonnie

Nitro
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Re: Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

Post by Nitro » Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:26 am

Jhoravi wrote:More and more interesting matches at my favorite Chess.com! :) BTW does 45´30" time control means 30 seconds increment?
Yes, each side gets 45 minutes plus 30 seconds per move
reflectionofpower wrote:The facebook page says different location:

Crystal Springs Uplands
400 Uplands Dr, Burlingame, California 94010
Sorry for any confusion -- it's actually the same location. Burlingame and Hillsborough share a zip code (94010), so Facebook lists the city as Burlingame, even though it's actually Hillsborough.
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:I don't consider the material odd games as a real game of chess....

It dosen't indicate anything usefull related to the opponents as it's simply an odd variation of the classic game of chess....

A chess game with time odds would be more reliable....

Anyway,thanks for organizing this exciting match....
Dr.D
Material odds are a reasonable way of handicapping stronger players, even if you don't consider it "real" chess. So are time odds, but giving Stockfish just a few minutes on that hardware (especially with permanent brain enabled, when the opponent has an hour) is almost surely more than enough to destroy any human. That would be fun to try, too, but alas, we only have so much time with Mr. Nakamura.
lucasart wrote:
Nitro wrote: For the last two games, Nakamura will play by himself (no help from Rybka), but he will have move-and-pawn odds against Stockfish.
Poor Nakamura! He'll certainly lose both of these games. Perhaps, with the f-pawn, he stands a chance to get a draw.

As for the other games, same as Naroditsky. He'll probably manage to swindle a draw, and lose the rest (or lose them all...).

Anyway, Nakamura is brave to accept the challenge. Most GMs avoid computers because they fear humiliation...

PS: Make sure you use Contempt > 0 for Stockfish (testing shows that even Contempt=20cp has a negligible impact on elo against equal opposition). You don't want SF to allow a repetition out of the opening against a 2800 elo "patzer" :lol:
Thanks, Lucas. I agree he'll have a hell of a time trying to win on his own with pawn odds, but depending on which pawn gets removed, he may be able to pull off a draw (especially if he's not trying for a win!)

Nakamura is definitely being a good sport about this, which is really cool.

And yep, I used 20cp contempt against Naroditsky and I plan to do the same against Nakamura. I follow all of the FishCooking tests pretty closely, and I agree that's a good configuration.

Henk
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Re: Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

Post by Henk » Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:37 am

I always like to see proof that these top engines are really playing stronger than humans. Engines are tuned to win from other engines. So there is a chance that all engines make the same kind of mistakes but their opponent engines are not able to make an advantage of these mistakes.

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Leto
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Re: Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

Post by Leto » Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:29 am

Henk wrote:I always like to see proof that these top engines are really playing stronger than humans. Engines are tuned to win from other engines. So there is a chance that all engines make the same kind of mistakes but their opponent engines are not able to make an advantage of these mistakes.
Well all you need to do for that proof is watch any human chess tournament. Even when all the players are super grandmasters there's still a bunch of blunders being made every game. There are times you'd see them make game ending blunders and then the opponent responds with their own game ending blunder. For me it got to the point where the blunders were so common that I couldn't stand watching human tournaments anymore.

The only human with a higher blitz rating than Nakamura is Carlsen, so Nakamura is a good choice for this format but I'm certain Stockfish will win both matches. Perhaps he'll be able to score a single draw in the portion of the match in which he gets assisted by Rybka 3, and only because Stockfish will not have an opening book, although Stockfish is quite formidable in the opening stage in comparison to older engines.

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