Helpmate-programs - and some problems for you....

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JBNielsen
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Helpmate-programs - and some problems for you....

Post by JBNielsen » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:17 am

There must be some good programs for solving/composing helpmates today.
But where?

In 1995 I made a silly dos-program named Brutalis.
It had some nice options, though.

dokumentation: http://www.jens-musik.dk/brutalis.htm
program: http://www.jens-musik.dk/BRUTALIS.ZIP
source: http://www.jens-musik.dk/brutalis.c

With the help of Brutalis I made most of the problems below:

1) A game ended with 6.gxf8N mate.

2) A game ended with whites move 9.Nd6+ mate. How is that possible,
when white has only moved a knight and black has only moved a pawn?

3) A game started 1.f3,f6 2.g4,Nc6 3.d4 and ended in move six, where the white king was mated on h4.

4) White mated black in a game, where both black and white only moved a single knight.

5) In a game that involved a capture, whites king on f4 was mated in 4 moves.

6) In a game that involved 2 bishop-moves, whites king on g4 was mated in 4 moves.

7) A game ended with whites move 8.Nd6++ mate with a doublecheck.
How is that possible, when white has only moved 2 pieces, black has only moved a
pawn, the ending position has a knight on b1 and
a) the white queen is on e2?
b) the white queen is on a4?

8) A game ended in five moves with knight captures pawn on h2 with
mate. 4 solutions each with a different placement of the black queen.
Origin: from the danish Skakbladet 1988, that many
readers and I discovered had several solutions. It was a pity for the problem,
but with a new presentation of the problem, I have turned a faulty problem into
four new tasks. The author is C.D.Locock, and the problem was
published in Fairy Chess Review august 1946.

9) A game ended with knight captures pawn on g2 with mate. How is
that possible, if
a) black has done four moves?

b) black has done five moves and the ending position has a rook on h1 and
1) whites bishops have not moved?
2) whites bishop from f1 is on another square on the kingside?
3) whites bishop from f1 is on the queenside?

c) black has done six moves and the ending position has a bishop on f1 and
1) black has moved 3 pieces on the kingside?
2) white has done 4 pawnmoves on the kingside?
3) white has done 6 moves with a knight?
4) whites king is on the second row?
5) white has done 5 moves with a bishop?
6) white played 1.Nc3 and 6.Ne4?

d) black has done all nine moves with a knight and white has only moved a
pawn?

e) black has done all ten moves with a knight and white has only moved the
d-pawn?

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Ajedrecista
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Re: Helpmate programs - and some problems for you...

Post by Ajedrecista » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:28 pm

Hello Jens:
JBNielsen wrote:There must be some good programs for solving/composing helpmates today.
But where?

In 1995 I made a silly dos-program named Brutalis.
It had some nice options, though.

dokumentation: http://www.jens-musik.dk/brutalis.htm
program: http://www.jens-musik.dk/BRUTALIS.ZIP
source: http://www.jens-musik.dk/brutalis.c

With the help of Brutalis I made most of the problems below:

1) A game ended with 6.gxf8N mate.

2) A game ended with whites move 9.Nd6+ mate. How is that possible,
when white has only moved a knight and black has only moved a pawn?

3) A game started 1.f3,f6 2.g4,Nc6 3.d4 and ended in move six, where the white king was mated on h4.

4) White mated black in a game, where both black and white only moved a single knight.

5) In a game that involved a capture, whites king on f4 was mated in 4 moves.

6) In a game that involved 2 bishop-moves, whites king on g4 was mated in 4 moves.

7) A game ended with whites move 8.Nd6++ mate with a doublecheck.
How is that possible, when white has only moved 2 pieces, black has only moved a
pawn, the ending position has a knight on b1 and
a) the white queen is on e2?
b) the white queen is on a4?

8) A game ended in five moves with knight captures pawn on h2 with
mate. 4 solutions each with a different placement of the black queen.
Origin: from the danish Skakbladet 1988, that many
readers and I discovered had several solutions. It was a pity for the problem,
but with a new presentation of the problem, I have turned a faulty problem into
four new tasks. The author is C.D.Locock, and the problem was
published in Fairy Chess Review august 1946.

9) A game ended with knight captures pawn on g2 with mate. How is
that possible, if
a) black has done four moves?

b) black has done five moves and the ending position has a rook on h1 and
1) whites bishops have not moved?
2) whites bishop from f1 is on another square on the kingside?
3) whites bishop from f1 is on the queenside?

c) black has done six moves and the ending position has a bishop on f1 and
1) black has moved 3 pieces on the kingside?
2) white has done 4 pawnmoves on the kingside?
3) white has done 6 moves with a knight?
4) whites king is on the second row?
5) white has done 5 moves with a bishop?
6) white played 1.Nc3 and 6.Ne4?

d) black has done all nine moves with a knight and white has only moved a
pawn?

e) black has done all ten moves with a knight and white has only moved the
d-pawn?
Interesting! I want to note a few things:
JBNielsen wrote:3) A game started 1.f3,f6 2.g4,Nc6 3.d4 and ended in move six, where the white king was mated on h4.
I ran Chest 5.2 and it gave 503 solutions, but none of the solutions had the move Kh4. There are some lines where the king is checkmated on f4, for example: 1.- f3, f6; 2.- g4, Nc6; 3.- d4, Ne5; 4.- Kf2, Nxg4+; 5.- Kg3, d5; 6.- Kf4, Qd6#. The most I could find by myself is a helpmate in seven: 1.- f3, f6; 2.- g4, Nc6; 3.- d4, h5; 4.- Kf2, d5; 5.- Kg3, Qd6+; 6.- Kh4, hxg4+; 7.- Bh6, Rxh6#.
JBNielsen wrote:9) A game ended with knight captures pawn on g2 with mate. How is
that possible, if
a) black has done four moves?
I solved it in about one minute with no other help that my brain! One possible solution (there are more, depending on white first and second moves, and on black second and third moves) is the following one: 1.- e4, Nf6; 2.- Bd3, Nd5; 3.- Ne2, Nf4; 4.- Rf1, Nxg2#.
JBNielsen wrote:2) A game ended with whites move 9.Nd6+ mate. How is that possible,
when white has only moved a knight and black has only moved a pawn?
I found a line that does not satisfy your conditions; anyway, here it is: 1.- Nc3, c6; 2.- Nd5, Nf6; 3.- Nxe7, Ng8; 4.- Nf5, Ne7; 5.- Nd6#. I wanted to share it because this line is also from my own. There are more similar solutions, like the next one: 1.- Nc3, c5; 2.- Nd5, c4; 3.- Nxe7, c3; 4.- Nf5, Ne7; 5.- Nd6#.

I hope that more people can find more solutions without computer help.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

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Ajedrecista
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Re: Helpmate programs - and some problems for you...

Post by Ajedrecista » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:37 pm

Hello again:
JBNielsen wrote:3) A game started 1.f3,f6 2.g4,Nc6 3.d4 and ended in move six, where the white king was mated on h4.
I still do not get that one. Another creative solution by myself is a helpmate in seven again: 1.- f3, f6; 2.- g4, Nc6; 3.- d4, Nxd4; 4.- Kf2, d5; 5.- Kg3, Nxe2+; 6.- Kh4, h5; 7.- Nd2, hxg4#. Anyway, if Chest did not find something, it is scary.

I found some solutions on your site later than writing my previous post. I missed this one by a hair:
JBNielsen wrote:2) A game ended with whites move 9.Nd6+ mate. How is that possible,
when white has only moved a knight and black has only moved a pawn?

Ajedrecista wrote:I found a line that does not satisfy your conditions; anyway, here it is: 1.- Nc3, c6; 2.- Nd5, Nf6; 3.- Nxe7, Ng8; 4.- Nf5, Ne7; 5.- Nd6#. I wanted to share it because this line is also from my own. There are more similar solutions, like the next one: 1.- Nc3, c5; 2.- Nd5, c4; 3.- Nxe7, c3; 4.- Nf5, Ne7; 5.- Nd6#.
At least my idea of advancing the black c-pawn, capturing the black e-pawn and playing ..., Ne7 at some point was right (great solution also with ..., Re7), but I completely missed the underpromotion.

I solved correctly the checkmate in four ending with Nxg2#. :)

------------------------
JBNielsen wrote:4) White mated black in a game, where both black and white only moved a single knight.
I got it by myself! 1.- Nc3, Nc6; 2.- Nd5, Ne5; 3.- Nf4, Nc6; 4.- Ne6, Ne5; 5.- Nxf8, Ng6; 6.- Ne6, Nf8; 7.- Nxg7#.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

JBNielsen
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Re: Helpmate programs - and some problems for you...

Post by JBNielsen » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:02 pm

3) A game started 1.f3,f6 2.g4,Nc6 3.d4 and ended in move six, where the white king was mated on h4.

I made this less than a week ago, and it is probably hard to solve.
I have a clue why Chest cannot solve it.....

What kind of program is Chest, since it can give you all the mating lines?

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Ajedrecista
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Re: Helpmate programs - and some problems for you...

Post by Ajedrecista » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:51 am

Hello Jens:
JBNielsen wrote:What kind of program is Chest, since it can give you all the mating lines?
Chest and Chest UCI are very famous. I use Chest UCI under Arena 2.0.1 GUI and it is a software for solving chess problems, puzzles and endgame studies among other things. It has support to find checkmates, stalemates, selfmates, self-stalemates, helpmates and self-stalemates. I recommend it.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

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F.Huber
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Re: Helpmate programs - and some problems for you...

Post by F.Huber » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:38 am

Ajedrecista wrote:
JBNielsen wrote:3) A game started 1.f3,f6 2.g4,Nc6 3.d4 and ended in move six, where the white king was mated on h4.
I ran Chest 5.2 and it gave 503 solutions, but none of the solutions had the move Kh4.
I guess you just misunderstood Jens!?
If you interpret "the white king was mated on h4" so that a black piece on h4 mates the white king in the 6th move (i.e. "mated on h4" was meant as "mated from h4"), then almost all of Chest's solutions fulfill this condition, and the last move is 6... Qh4+ mate!
(e.g. the first shown solution is: 3. ... h6 4.h3 f5 5.gxf5 e6 6.Nd2 Qh4+)

The correct settings for this problem are:
DefenderMoves=checked
ProblemType=HelpMate
SearchDepth=3

Then you get in fact 503 solutions, where 58 of them already end after 5 moves (most of them with 5... Qh4#), and the rest of the solutions are the wanted PVs which end after 6 moves (again most of them with 6... Qh4#).

Regards,
Franz

JBNielsen
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Re: Helpmate programs - and some problems for you...

Post by JBNielsen » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:52 am

F.Huber wrote:
Ajedrecista wrote:
JBNielsen wrote:3) A game started 1.f3,f6 2.g4,Nc6 3.d4 and ended in move six, where the white king was mated on h4.
I ran Chest 5.2 and it gave 503 solutions, but none of the solutions had the move Kh4.
I guess you just misunderstood Jens!?
If you interpret "the white king was mated on h4" so that a black piece on h4 mates the white king in the 6th move (i.e. "mated on h4" was meant as "mated from h4"), then almost all of Chest's solutions fulfill this condition, and the last move is 6... Qh4+ mate!
(e.g. the first shown solution is: 3. ... h6 4.h3 f5 5.gxf5 e6 6.Nd2 Qh4+)

The correct settings for this problem are:
DefenderMoves=checked
ProblemType=HelpMate
SearchDepth=3

Then you get in fact 503 solutions, where 58 of them already end after 5 moves (most of them with 5... Qh4#), and the rest of the solutions are the wanted PVs which end after 6 moves (again most of them with 6... Qh4#).

Regards,
Franz
Sorry, but the white king must be on h4!!

I should have been more precise:
3) A game started 1.f3,f6 2.g4,Nc6 3.d4 and ended in move six, where the white king on h4 was mated.

And there is only one solution!

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F.Huber
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Re: Helpmate programs - and some problems for you...

Post by F.Huber » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:06 pm

JBNielsen wrote: Sorry, but the white king must be on h4!!

I should have been more precise:
3) A game started 1.f3,f6 2.g4,Nc6 3.d4 and ended in move six, where the white king on h4 was mated.

And there is only one solution!
Well, then let me summarize what this means:
After your first given 3 moves the wK is still on e1, but 3 (white) moves later he has to be on h4 (because you say the he is mated there).
So all the next 3 white moves are forced and the following PV must look like this:
3... 4.Kf2 ... 5.Kg3 ... 6.Kh4 ...#

In all possible solutions provided by Chest there are only 2 lines where the wK makes at least 2 steps towards h4, and these lines are:
3. ... Ne5 4.Kf2 Nxg4+ 5.Kg3 d5 6.Kf4 Qd6+
and
3. ... Nh6 4.Kf2 Nxg4+ 5.Kg3 d5 6.Kf4 Qd6+

As Jesus Munoz already wrote - there's definitely no PV in all 503 possible solutions which end with 6.Kh4 ...#, so either your intended solution is wrong ... or there's a bug in Chest (and I'm quite sure this is not the case).

So just waiting for your ' solution' ... :wink:

Franz

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Re: Helpmate programs - and some problems for you...

Post by hMx » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:03 pm

F.Huber wrote:
JBNielsen wrote: Sorry, but the white king must be on h4!!

I should have been more precise:
3) A game started 1.f3,f6 2.g4,Nc6 3.d4 and ended in move six, where the white king on h4 was mated.

And there is only one solution!
Well, then let me summarize what this means:
After your first given 3 moves the wK is still on e1, but 3 (white) moves later he has to be on h4 (because you say the he is mated there).
So all the next 3 white moves are forced and the following PV must look like this:
3... 4.Kf2 ... 5.Kg3 ... 6.Kh4 ...#

In all possible solutions provided by Chest there are only 2 lines where the wK makes at least 2 steps towards h4, and these lines are:
3. ... Ne5 4.Kf2 Nxg4+ 5.Kg3 d5 6.Kf4 Qd6+
and
3. ... Nh6 4.Kf2 Nxg4+ 5.Kg3 d5 6.Kf4 Qd6+

As Jesus Munoz already wrote - there's definitely no PV in all 503 possible solutions which end with 6.Kh4 ...#, so either your intended solution is wrong ... or there's a bug in Chest (and I'm quite sure this is not the case).

So just waiting for your ' solution' ... :wink:

Franz
I think it ends in 6.Kxh4 Nf5# 8-)

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Re: Helpmate programs - and some problems for you...

Post by Ajedrecista » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:21 pm

Hello:
hMx wrote:
F.Huber wrote:
JBNielsen wrote: Sorry, but the white king must be on h4!!

I should have been more precise:
3) A game started 1.f3,f6 2.g4,Nc6 3.d4 and ended in move six, where the white king on h4 was mated.

And there is only one solution!
Well, then let me summarize what this means:
After your first given 3 moves the wK is still on e1, but 3 (white) moves later he has to be on h4 (because you say the he is mated there).
So all the next 3 white moves are forced and the following PV must look like this:
3... 4.Kf2 ... 5.Kg3 ... 6.Kh4 ...#

In all possible solutions provided by Chest there are only 2 lines where the wK makes at least 2 steps towards h4, and these lines are:
3. ... Ne5 4.Kf2 Nxg4+ 5.Kg3 d5 6.Kf4 Qd6+
and
3. ... Nh6 4.Kf2 Nxg4+ 5.Kg3 d5 6.Kf4 Qd6+

As Jesus Munoz already wrote - there's definitely no PV in all 503 possible solutions which end with 6.Kh4 ...#, so either your intended solution is wrong ... or there's a bug in Chest (and I'm quite sure this is not the case).

So just waiting for your ' solution' ... :wink:

Franz
I think it ends in 6.Kxh4 Nf5# 8-)
Great! Did you solve the helpmate by yourself or did you use computer help?

Once I read your proposed solution, it took me less than a minute to find 1.- f3, f6; 2.- g4, Nc6; 3.- d4, h5; 4.- Kf2, Nh6; 5.- Kg3, h4+; 6.- Kxh4, Nf5#. The last couple of plies provided by Heiner were crucial for start to think in the right direction. So, the question is: why Chest did not find this solution?

@Franz: I exactly searched lines with 4.- Kf2, ...; 5.- Kg3, ...; 6.- {Kh4, Kxh4}, ...#, because the king moves were forced, but I failed to find the solution.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

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