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acozzie

Longer Article

Post by acozzie » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:00 am

So I was convinced by Mark to put my name on the letter even though I have little to do with computer chess any more. After some thinking (and some browsing the forums, where people are making absolutely ridiculous claims) I decided I was going to have to write a little better explanation. It seems that computer chess has once again figured out how to waste my time.

www.acoz.net/zappa/rybka-cloning

The key points: why Rybka has been so dominant for so long, why copying an engine is totally different than reading source code, and why we almost certainly would never have heard the name Rajlich if he hadn't copied Fruit wholesale, which is why the guy talking about the confederacy of dunces should take a good look in the mirror (after all, if we are judging people entirely by the ELO of their engine, then his worth is 0).

I don't plan on replying to this since I've said just about everything I want to say in the article. I very much doubt I will convince the Rybka supporters of anything, but hopefully it will make a few things more clear to the rest of us (there is a great quote by Lichtenberg about this).

cheers,

Anthony

PK
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Re: Longer Article

Post by PK » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:30 am

Q: What's the new marketing name for Rybka Cluster?
A: Fish and chips.

Jouni
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Re: Longer Article

Post by Jouni » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:51 am

Really interesting article. BTW: if Rybka is declared as derivate/clone do
we get all money invested for Rybka 1-4 as refund 8-) Or are they sent to Fabian?

Jouni

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Michael Diosi
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Re: Longer Article

Post by Michael Diosi » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:10 pm

Hi,


ask ChessBase...


Michael
http://www.playwitharena.com

tomgdrums
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Re: Longer Article

Post by tomgdrums » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:55 pm

Michael Diosi wrote:Hi,


ask ChessBase...


Michael
http://www.playwitharena.com
Why do you single out chessbase? Rybka was also sold by ChessOK and by the Rybka team as well.

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Sylwy
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Re: Degeaba...:)))

Post by Sylwy » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:56 pm

Salut Carol !

Te chinui degeaba ! Nu ti-e clar inca cine trage sforile pe aicea ? Daca nu esti lamurit - uite un post interesant (si instructiv :lol: ):

http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 27&t=38190

Se pare ca autorul textului e un fost daco-roman.Si nu e unicul pe aici ! :lol:

Crezi ca au intervenit moderatorii ? Sponsorii ? Asa ca nu te minuna .
Despre Rybka -povestea e veche. Se pare ca nu e scrisa de cine trebuia ! :lol:

Pa !

:roll: S :roll:

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Romy
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Re: Degeaba...:)))

Post by Romy » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:59 pm

Sylwy wrote:Salut Carol !
Salut!

SKANDALOV!

Osipov Jury
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Re: Longer Article

Post by Osipov Jury » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:59 pm

I had a discussion with Vasik in Mexico about his tuning. His procedure was to play games at 3-4 ply which would finish in 10 seconds or so. At that speed the context switching and parsing of UCI would be much to slow, so he had written a special tester to link two versions of Rybka. To accurately measure 2-3 elo changes requires about 100,000 games; at 10 seconds per game that equates to about 10 days of computer time.
I also tested Strelka in the games at 4 ply. Each game finish in less than 1 second. Per hour was played 5000 games. At 100000 games take 20 hours.
If you disable the interface UCI and switching, the speed increases by about half.
Besides, my computer is slow (Core Duo). At a more powerful computer the entire test can be carried out for 1-2 hours.
I went through the Rybka code forwards and backwards and took many things.

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Sylwy
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Re: Degeaba...:)))

Post by Sylwy » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:02 pm

Romy wrote:
Sylwy wrote:Salut Carol !
Salut!

SKANDALOV!
ÜBER SKANDALOV ! :lol:

Auf Wiedersehen !

:roll: Silvian :roll:

tomgdrums
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Re: Longer Article

Post by tomgdrums » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:09 pm

Romy wrote:
acozzie wrote:So I was convinced by Mark to put my name on the letter
Reference is to Mr HIARCS Uniacke. Can he appear to be Chief of the confed?

If case is so clear on technicals, why his persuasion was necessary?
Rybka has been so dominant for so long
Yes. This is 90% of point.
the guy talking about the confederacy of dunces should take a good look in the mirror
I am good-looking. I see skeptic chessplayer.

I play Zappa, I have not a bad record. But without the permission of its true author/s, I am polite not to publish it.

But I play RYBKA, I get most painful crush if I play for win, else some draws also.
I don't plan on replying
But was not able to resist?

When replying, can you please report decompilation investigation in to how HIARCS gain 200 ELO in very short period? Better, demand source code.

Or is it there is not an investigation to this? Why? Because Mr "Osipov" not bother to reverse engineer weakie, when he has RYBKA for target?
As you can see below, Hiarcs has gained 132 ELO over the course of 4 years. This information is based on release dates and CCRL testing.

So your point of 200 elo in a "short time" is not even remotely valid. Sorry.


Hiarcs 11-released December 6th, 2006-ELO=2879

Hiarcs 12.1-released December 14th, 2008-ELO=2921

Hiarcs 13.2-released December 24th, 2010-ELO=3011


Hiarcs is a great engine and the their customer service is amazing.

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