Test Position: Rybka-Scaramanga (b6!)

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Albert Silver
Posts: 2821
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Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Test Position: Rybka-Scaramanga (b6!)

Post by Albert Silver » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:13 am

In the last round of Leiden, Rybka was the obvious crushing favbortie against Scaramanga, and in the game it produced the following impressive shot:

[D]r4k2/1np1rbb1/4P2p/pP1P4/2R2Q2/q1N5/2B2PP1/2R3K1 w - - 0 37

37.b6!!
"Tactics are the bricks and sticks that make up a game, but positional play is the architectural blueprint."

zullil
Posts: 5158
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:31 pm
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: Test Position: Rybka-Scaramanga (b6!)

Post by zullil » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:07 pm

Albert Silver wrote:In the last round of Leiden, Rybka was the obvious crushing favorite against Scaramanga, and in the game it produced the following impressive shot:

[D]r4k2/1np1rbb1/4P2p/pP1P4/2R2Q2/q1N5/2B2PP1/2R3K1 w - - 0 37

37.b6!!
Crafty doesn't choose b6 given 2 hours:

Code: Select all

Crafty v23.4 (16 cpus)

White(1): setboard r4k2/1np1rbb1/4P2p/pP1P4/2R2Q2/q1N5/2B2PP1/2R3K1 w - - 0 37
White(1): st 7200
search time set to 7200.00.
White(1): display

       +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
    8  |<R>| . |   | . |   |<K>|   | . |
       +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
    7  | . |<N>|<P>|   |<R>|<B>|<B>|   |
       +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
    6  |   | . |   | . |-P-| . |   |<P>|
       +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
    5  |<P>|-P-| . |-P-| . |   | . |   |
       +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
    4  |   | . |-R-| . |   |-Q-|   | . |
       +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
    3  |<Q>|   |-N-|   | . |   | . |   |
       +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
    2  |   | . |-B-| . |   |-P-|-P-| . |
       +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
    1  | . |   |-R-|   | . |   |-K-|   |
       +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
         a   b   c   d   e   f   g   h

White&#40;1&#41;&#58; display stats
display statistics at end of each search.
White&#40;1&#41;&#58; go
              time limit 120&#58;00 (+0.00&#41; &#40;120&#58;00&#41;
              depth   time  score   variation &#40;1&#41;
starting thread 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 <done>
                8     0.06   1.52   1. Bh7 Qd6 2. exf7 Rxf7 3. Bf5 Qxf4
                                    4. Rxf4 Re8
                8->   0.07   1.52   1. Bh7 Qd6 2. exf7 Rxf7 3. Bf5 Qxf4
                                    4. Rxf4 Re8
                9     0.08   1.51   1. Bh7 Qd6 2. exf7 Qxf4 3. Rxf4 Rxf7
                                    4. Rxf7+ Kxf7 5. Be4
                9->   0.08   1.51   1. Bh7 Qd6 2. exf7 Qxf4 3. Rxf4 Rxf7
                                    4. Rxf7+ Kxf7 5. Be4
               10     0.12   1.75   1. Bh7 Qd6 2. exf7 Qxf4 3. Rxf4 Rxf7
                                    4. Rg4 h5 5. Rg5 h4
               10->   0.13   1.75   1. Bh7 Qd6 2. exf7 Qxf4 3. Rxf4 Rxf7
                                    4. Rg4 h5 5. Rg5 h4
               11     0.19   1.85   1. Bh7 Qb2 2. exf7 Rxf7 3. Na4 Qxb5
                                    4. Qg4 Qxd5 5. Bg6 Be5 6. Bxf7 Qxf7
               11->   0.20   1.85   1. Bh7 Qb2 2. exf7 Rxf7 3. Na4 Qxb5
                                    4. Qg4 Qxd5 5. Bg6 Be5 6. Bxf7 Qxf7
               12     0.26   1.74   1. Bh7 Qd6 2. Bg6 Qxf4 3. Rxf4 Nd6
                                    4. exf7 Be5 5. Rf3 Nxf7 6. Re1 Bxc3
                                    7. Rxe7 Kxe7 8. Rxc3
               12->   0.30   1.74   1. Bh7 Qd6 2. Bg6 Qxf4 3. Rxf4 Nd6
                                    4. exf7 Be5 5. Rf3 Nxf7 6. Re1 Bxc3
                                    7. Rxe7 Kxe7 8. Rxc3
               13     0.46     -1   1. Bh7?                           
               13     0.49   1.14   1. Bh7 Nd6 2. Nb1 Qb3 3. Nd2 Qxb5 4.
                                    Rxc7 Qb4 5. Qxb4 axb4 6. Rxe7 Kxe7
                                    7. Rc7+ Kf6 8. exf7 Nxf7
               13     0.71   1.61   1. Ne4 Qb2 2. exf7 Rxf7 3. Qe3 Re8
                                    4. Bd3 Ree7 5. Rc6 Qe5 6. b6 cxb6 7.
                                    Rc8+ Re8 8. Qxb6 Qxd5
               13->   0.79   1.61   1. Ne4 Qb2 2. exf7 Rxf7 3. Qe3 Re8
                                    4. Bd3 Ree7 5. Rc6 Qe5 6. b6 cxb6 7.
                                    Rc8+ Re8 8. Qxb6 Qxd5
               14     0.86   1.61   1. Ne4 Qb2 2. exf7 Rxf7 3. Qe3 Re8
                                    4. Bd3 Ree7 5. Rc6 Qe5 6. b6 cxb6 7.
                                    Rc8+ Re8 8. Qxb6 Qxd5
               14     1.24   1.75   1. Bh7 Qd6 2. exf7 Qxf4 3. Rxf4 Nd6
                                    4. Ne4 Be5 5. Rh4 Rxf7 6. Bg6 Rf4 7.
                                    Rh5 Nxe4 8. Rxe5
               14->   1.29   1.75   1. Bh7 Qd6 2. exf7 Qxf4 3. Rxf4 Nd6
                                    4. Ne4 Be5 5. Rh4 Rxf7 6. Bg6 Rf4 7.
                                    Rh5 Nxe4 8. Rxe5 &#40;s=2&#41;
               15     1.38   1.66   1. Bh7 Qd6 2. exf7 Qxf4 3. Rxf4 Nd6
                                    4. Ne4 Nxb5 5. Bg6 Nd4 6. Kf1 Be5 7.
                                    Rh4 Bg7 8. Rh5
               15     2.04   1.67   1. Ne4 Qb2 2. Rb1 Qe5 3. Qxe5 Bxe5
                                    4. exf7 Rd8 5. b6 cxb6 6. Rxb6 Rxd5
                                    7. Rxh6 Rxf7 8. Ba4
               15->   2.04   1.67   1. Ne4 Qb2 2. Rb1 Qe5 3. Qxe5 Bxe5
                                    4. exf7 Rd8 5. b6 cxb6 6. Rxb6 Rxd5
                                    7. Rxh6 Rxf7 8. Ba4 &#40;s=4&#41;
               16     2.29   1.76   1. Ne4 Qb2 2. Rb1 Qe5 3. Qxe5 Bxe5
                                    4. exf7 Rd8 5. Rc6 Rxf7 6. Rxh6 Rxd5
                                    7. Ng5 Re7 8. Be4 Rd6 &#40;s=3&#41;
               16     2.94     +1   1. Bg6!                           
               16     3.23     +3   1. Bg6!                           
               16     7.18   3.01   1. Bg6 Nd6 2. Nb1 Qa1 3. Rxc7 Qe5 4.
                                    Qf3 Rxc7 5. Rxc7 Bf6 6. exf7 Nxb5 7.
                                    Rb7 Nd6 8. Rd7 a4
               16->   7.18   3.01   1. Bg6 Nd6 2. Nb1 Qa1 3. Rxc7 Qe5 4.
                                    Qf3 Rxc7 5. Rxc7 Bf6 6. exf7 Nxb5 7.
                                    Rb7 Nd6 8. Rd7 a4
               17     7.37   3.10   1. Bg6 Nd6 2. Nb1 Qa1 3. Rxc7 Qe5 4.
                                    Qf3 Rxc7 5. Rxc7 Bf6 6. exf7 Nxb5 7.
                                    Rc6 Nd6 8. Nc3 a4 9. Nb5 Qe1+ 10. Kh2
               17->   7.66   3.10   1. Bg6 Nd6 2. Nb1 Qa1 3. Rxc7 Qe5 4.
                                    Qf3 Rxc7 5. Rxc7 Bf6 6. exf7 Nxb5 7.
                                    Rc6 Nd6 8. Nc3 a4 9. Nb5 Qe1+ 10. Kh2
                                    &#40;s=3&#41;
               18     8.08   2.98   1. Bg6 Nd6 2. Nb1 Qa1 3. Rxc7 Qe5 4.
                                    Qf3 Qf6 5. Qxf6 Bxf6 6. Bxf7 Nxf7 7.
                                    exf7 Rxc7 8. Rxc7 Rd8 9. Rc6 Kxf7 10.
                                    Rc7+ Be7 &#40;s=2&#41;
               18->   9.05   2.98   1. Bg6 Nd6 2. Nb1 Qa1 3. Rxc7 Qe5 4.
                                    Qf3 Qf6 5. Qxf6 Bxf6 6. Bxf7 Nxf7 7.
                                    exf7 Rxc7 8. Rxc7 Rd8 9. Rc6 Kxf7 10.
                                    Rc7+ Be7 &#40;s=4&#41;
               19     9.77   2.93   1. Bg6 Nd6 2. Nb1 Qa1 3. Rxc7 Qe5 4.
                                    Qf3 Qf6 5. Bxf7 Qxf3 6. gxf3 Rxc7 7.
                                    Rxc7 Nxb5 8. Rc5 Nd6 9. Bg6 a4 10.
                                    Na3 &#40;s=3&#41;
               19->  11.40   2.93   1. Bg6 Nd6 2. Nb1 Qa1 3. Rxc7 Qe5 4.
                                    Qf3 Qf6 5. Bxf7 Qxf3 6. gxf3 Rxc7 7.
                                    Rxc7 Nxb5 8. Rc5 Nd6 9. Bg6 a4 10.
                                    Na3 &#40;s=4&#41;
               20    12.71   2.88   1. Bg6 Nd6 2. Nb1 Qa1 3. Rxc7 Qe5 4.
                                    Qf3 Qf6 5. Bxf7 Qxf3 6. gxf3 Rxc7 7.
                                    Rxc7 Nxb5 8. Rc5 Nd6 9. Bg6 a4 10.
                                    Na3 Rb8 &#40;s=3&#41;
               20->  16.14   2.88   1. Bg6 Nd6 2. Nb1 Qa1 3. Rxc7 Qe5 4.
                                    Qf3 Qf6 5. Bxf7 Qxf3 6. gxf3 Rxc7 7.
                                    Rxc7 Nxb5 8. Rc5 Nd6 9. Bg6 a4 10.
                                    Na3 Rb8 &#40;s=4&#41;
               21    18.65   2.81   1. Bg6 Nd6 2. Nb1 Qa1 3. Rxc7 Qe5 4.
                                    Qf3 Qf6 5. Bxf7 Qxf3 6. gxf3 Rxc7 7.
                                    Rxc7 Nxb5 8. Rb7 Nd6 9. Rd7 Be5 10.
                                    Bg6 a4 11. Na3 &#40;s=3&#41;
               21->  26.25   2.81   1. Bg6 Nd6 2. Nb1 Qa1 3. Rxc7 Qe5 4.
                                    Qf3 Qf6 5. Bxf7 Qxf3 6. gxf3 Rxc7 7.
                                    Rxc7 Nxb5 8. Rb7 Nd6 9. Rd7 Be5 10.
                                    Bg6 a4 11. Na3 &#40;s=4&#41;
               22    34.50   2.60   1. Bg6 Nd6 2. Nb1 Qb2 3. Rxc7 Be5 4.
                                    Qxh6+ Bg7 5. Qf4 Be5 6. Qf3 Rxc7 7.
                                    Rxc7 Ra7 8. Rc6 Kg7 9. Bd3 Be8 10.
                                    b6 Bxc6 11. bxa7 Qc1+ 12. Bf1 Ba8 &#40;s=3&#41;
               22->   1&#58;07   2.60   1. Bg6 Nd6 2. Nb1 Qb2 3. Rxc7 Be5 4.
                                    Qxh6+ Bg7 5. Qf4 Be5 6. Qf3 Rxc7 7.
                                    Rxc7 Ra7 8. Rc6 Kg7 9. Bd3 Be8 10.
                                    b6 Bxc6 11. bxa7 Qc1+ 12. Bf1 Ba8 &#40;s=5&#41;
               23     1&#58;22   2.28   1. Bg6 Nd6 2. Nb1 Qb2 3. Rxc7 Be5 4.
                                    Qxh6+ Bg7 5. Qf4 Be5 6. Qf3 Rxc7 7.
                                    Rxc7 Ra7 8. Rc6 Kg7 9. Bd3 Be8 10.
                                    b6 Bxc6 11. bxa7 Qc1+ 12. Bf1 Ba8 13.
                                    Qg4+ Kf6 &#40;s=4&#41;
               23->   3&#58;15   2.28   1. Bg6 Nd6 2. Nb1 Qb2 3. Rxc7 Be5 4.
                                    Qxh6+ Bg7 5. Qf4 Be5 6. Qf3 Rxc7 7.
                                    Rxc7 Ra7 8. Rc6 Kg7 9. Bd3 Be8 10.
                                    b6 Bxc6 11. bxa7 Qc1+ 12. Bf1 Ba8 13.
                                    Qg4+ Kf6 &#40;s=10&#41;
               24     3&#58;40     -1   1. Bg6?                           
               24     3&#58;47   1.89   1. Bg6 Nd6 2. Nb1 Qb2 3. Rxc7 Be5 4.
                                    Qxh6+ Bg7 5. Qf4 Be5 6. Qg5 Bf6 7.
                                    Qg3 Be5 8. Qh3 Bxg6 9. Qh6+ Kg8 10.
                                    Rxe7 Bxb1 11. Qg5+ Kh8 12. b6 Be4 13.
                                    b7 Nxb7 14. Rxb7 Qxb7 15. Qxe5+ &#40;s=9&#41;
               24    15&#58;15   2.20   1. Ne4 Qb2 2. exf7 Rxf7 3. Qe3 Re8
                                    4. Bd3 Qe5 5. b6 cxb6 6. Qxb6 Qxd5
                                    7. Rc8 Qd7 8. Rxe8+ Qxe8 9. Nc5 Nxc5
                                    10. Qxc5+ Re7 11. Qf5+ Kg8 12. Qxa5
                                    Kh8 13. Qd2 Qh5 &#40;s=5&#41;
               24->  17&#58;03   2.20   1. Ne4 Qb2 2. exf7 Rxf7 3. Qe3 Re8
                                    4. Bd3 Qe5 5. b6 cxb6 6. Qxb6 Qxd5
                                    7. Rc8 Qd7 8. Rxe8+ Qxe8 9. Nc5 Nxc5
                                    10. Qxc5+ Re7 11. Qf5+ Kg8 12. Qxa5
                                    Kh8 13. Qd2 Qh5 &#40;s=2&#41;
               25    20&#58;43   2.20   1. Ne4 Nd6 2. Ra4 Qb2 3. Nxd6 cxd6
                                    4. Bd3 Be5 5. Qe3 Bf6 6. Rb1 Qe5 7.
                                    Qxe5 Bxe5 8. exf7 Rxf7 9. Bg6 Rf4 10.
                                    Be4 Rf7 11. Re1 Rb7 12. Bd3 Rb6 13.
                                    f4
               25->  25&#58;08   2.20   1. Ne4 Nd6 2. Ra4 Qb2 3. Nxd6 cxd6
                                    4. Bd3 Be5 5. Qe3 Bf6 6. Rb1 Qe5 7.
                                    Qxe5 Bxe5 8. exf7 Rxf7 9. Bg6 Rf4 10.
                                    Be4 Rf7 11. Re1 Rb7 12. Bd3 Rb6 13.
                                    f4
               26    33&#58;18   2.22   1. Ne4 Qb2 2. exf7 Rxf7 3. Qe3 Re8
                                    4. Bd3 Qe5 5. b6 cxb6 6. Qxb6 Qxd5
                                    7. Rc8 Qd7 8. Rxe8+ Qxe8 9. Nc5 Nxc5
                                    10. Qxc5+ Re7 11. Qf5+ Rf7 12. Qxa5
                                    Re7 13. Qb4 Kg8 14. Qc4+ Kh8 15. Qd5
                                    Re1+ 16. Rxe1 Qxe1+
               26->  47&#58;10   2.22   1. Ne4 Qb2 2. exf7 Rxf7 3. Qe3 Re8
                                    4. Bd3 Qe5 5. b6 cxb6 6. Qxb6 Qxd5
                                    7. Rc8 Qd7 8. Rxe8+ Qxe8 9. Nc5 Nxc5
                                    10. Qxc5+ Re7 11. Qf5+ Rf7 12. Qxa5
                                    Re7 13. Qb4 Kg8 14. Qc4+ Kh8 15. Qd5
                                    Re1+ 16. Rxe1 Qxe1+
               27    66&#58;14   2.60   1. Ne4 Qb2 2. exf7 Rd8 3. Ba4 Qe5 4.
                                    Qg4 Rxf7 5. Ng3 Qf6 6. Rxc7 Qxf2+ 7.
                                    Kh1 Nd6 8. Rxf7+ Nxf7 9. Rf1 Qd4 10.
                                    Qxd4 Bxd4 11. Nf5 Bg7 12. b6 Rxd5 13.
                                    b7 Rd8 14. Nxg7 Kxg7
               27->  87&#58;21   2.60   1. Ne4 Qb2 2. exf7 Rd8 3. Ba4 Qe5 4.
                                    Qg4 Rxf7 5. Ng3 Qf6 6. Rxc7 Qxf2+ 7.
                                    Kh1 Nd6 8. Rxf7+ Nxf7 9. Rf1 Qd4 10.
                                    Qxd4 Bxd4 11. Nf5 Bg7 12. b6 Rxd5 13.
                                    b7 Rd8 14. Nxg7 Kxg7
              time=120&#58;00  mat=-1  n=206701341444  fh=343%  nps=28.7M 
              extensions=2288.3M qchecks=1818.5M reduced=3718.9M pruned=3129.3M
              predicted=0  evals=444.2M  50move=0  EGTBprobes=3K  hits=3K
              SMP->  splits=16166796  aborts=2790073  data=318/1024  elap=120&#58;00
terminating SMP processes.
White&#40;1&#41;&#58; Ne4
              time used&#58; 120&#58;00

zullil
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Re: Test Position: Rybka-Scaramanga (b6!)

Post by zullil » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:17 pm

Stockfish-1.9.1 (8 threads) seems to agree with Crafty:

Code: Select all

info depth 27 score cp 367 time 421453 nodes 3577949468 nps 8489557 pv c3e4 a3b2 e6f7 a8d8 c1d1 b2e5 f4g4 e7f7 d5d6 c7d6 c4c8 e5f5 c8d8 b7d8 g4e2 f7e7 d1d6 d8f7 d6a6 f5c8 e2f3 g7e5 a6c6 c8e8 c2b3 e5f4 b3d5 e7e5 f3f4 e5d5 e4f6 e8e1 g1h2 

Albert Silver
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Re: Test Position: Rybka-Scaramanga (b6!)

Post by Albert Silver » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:30 pm

zullil wrote:Stockfish-1.9.1 (8 threads) seems to agree with Crafty:

Code: Select all

info depth 27 score cp 367 time 421453 nodes 3577949468 nps 8489557 pv c3e4 a3b2 e6f7 a8d8 c1d1 b2e5 f4g4 e7f7 d5d6 c7d6 c4c8 e5f5 c8d8 b7d8 g4e2 f7e7 d1d6 d8f7 d6a6 f5c8 e2f3 g7e5 a6c6 c8e8 c2b3 e5f4 b3d5 e7e5 f3f4 e5d5 e4f6 e8e1 g1h2 
Well, bear in mind this is the cluster playing, so....
"Tactics are the bricks and sticks that make up a game, but positional play is the architectural blueprint."

Milos
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Re: Test Position: Rybka-Scaramanga (b6!)

Post by Milos » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:42 pm

Albert Silver wrote:In the last round of Leiden, Rybka was the obvious crushing favbortie against Scaramanga, and in the game it produced the following impressive shot:

[D]r4k2/1np1rbb1/4P2p/pP1P4/2R2Q2/q1N5/2B2PP1/2R3K1 w - - 0 37

37.b6!!
Care to explain why you think b6 is an impressive move? Knowing your reasoning it's impressive just because it's made by Rybka.
Talking about impressive, how a move that is not even the best one can be impressive???
The best move is definitively Ne4 given a complete concordance by couple of engines and checked by running over 200 billion nodes with one of the engines almost certainly stronger than Rybka.
Care to give cluster Rybka node count in the game, or refute Ne4 as the best move, or give faster winning plan with b6?

zullil
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Re: Test Position: Rybka-Scaramanga (b6!)

Post by zullil » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:48 pm

I'll let Stockfish think a bit more deeply ... :D

Jeroen
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Re: Test Position: Rybka-Scaramanga (b6!)

Post by Jeroen » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:15 pm

with one of the engines almost certainly stronger than Rybka

Stronger than cluster Rybka? Ha, ha, ha. So, where is your proof? Do you have some hundred games to prove this?

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Laskos
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Re: Test Position: Rybka-Scaramanga (b6!)

Post by Laskos » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:20 pm

Jeroen wrote:with one of the engines almost certainly stronger than Rybka

Stronger than cluster Rybka? Ha, ha, ha. So, where is your proof? Do you have some hundred games to prove this?
He meant stronger than the public Rybka 4 on equal hardware, and there are many of these free open source or not engines.

Kai

gerold
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Re: Test Position: Rybka-Scaramanga (b6!)

Post by gerold » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:36 pm

Albert Silver wrote:
zullil wrote:Stockfish-1.9.1 (8 threads) seems to agree with Crafty:

Code: Select all

info depth 27 score cp 367 time 421453 nodes 3577949468 nps 8489557 pv c3e4 a3b2 e6f7 a8d8 c1d1 b2e5 f4g4 e7f7 d5d6 c7d6 c4c8 e5f5 c8d8 b7d8 g4e2 f7e7 d1d6 d8f7 d6a6 f5c8 e2f3 g7e5 a6c6 c8e8 c2b3 e5f4 b3d5 e7e5 f3f4 e5d5 e4f6 e8e1 g1h2 
Well, bear in mind this is the cluster playing, so....
Doesn't say much for the Cluster or R4. That is a weak move compared to a couple other moves that the top engines fine on regular pc.

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Houdini
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Re: Test Position: Rybka-Scaramanga (b6!)

Post by Houdini » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:44 pm

Albert Silver wrote:In the last round of Leiden, Rybka was the obvious crushing favbortie against Scaramanga, and in the game it produced the following impressive shot:

[D]r4k2/1np1rbb1/4P2p/pP1P4/2R2Q2/q1N5/2B2PP1/2R3K1 w - - 0 37

37.b6!!
37.b6 is indeed a very good move in this position.
37.Ne4 appears to be about equally good, see for example the spectacular line 37.Ne4 Qb2 38.Bb3!! Qxb3 39.b6!! which leads to the following position:

[D]r4k2/1np1rbb1/1P2P2p/p2P4/2R1NQ2/1q6/5PP1/2R3K1 b - - 0 39
A crushing position for White despite being two pieces behind!

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