Stockfish for 39 dollars.

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Matthias Gemuh
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Stockfish for 39 dollars.

Post by Matthias Gemuh » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:42 pm

Stockfish for 39 dollars.

http://www.chess4less.com/cheap/1/003939.html

+ a database.
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
http://www.chess.hylogic.de

gerold
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Re: Stockfish for 39 dollars.

Post by gerold » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:58 pm

Matthias Gemuh wrote:Stockfish for 39 dollars.

http://www.chess4less.com/cheap/1/003939.html

+ a database.
On their site they say it beat Rybka 4. Must be stronger than R4 LOL>

tmokonen
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Re: Stockfish for 39 dollars.

Post by tmokonen » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:10 pm

Matthias Gemuh wrote:Stockfish for 39 dollars.

http://www.chess4less.com/cheap/1/003939.html

+ a database.
http://www.newinchess.com/Master_Chess_ ... -2373.html

Apparently, it's by the same guy that made the program Bookup... and Dzindzi? How did he get involved in all this?

I hope they're cutting royalty cheques for Tord, Marco and Joona.

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Graham Banks
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Re: Stockfish for 39 dollars.

Post by Graham Banks » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:14 am

tmokonen wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote:Stockfish for 39 dollars.

http://www.chess4less.com/cheap/1/003939.html

+ a database.
http://www.newinchess.com/Master_Chess_ ... -2373.html

Apparently, it's by the same guy that made the program Bookup... and Dzindzi? How did he get involved in all this?

I hope they're cutting royalty cheques for Tord, Marco and Joona.
Does this mean that Stockfish should now be considered as a commercial engine rather than non-commercial?
My email addresses:
gbanksnz at gmail.com
gbanksnz at yahoo.co.nz

Tord Romstad
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Re: Stockfish for 39 dollars.

Post by Tord Romstad » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:01 am

Graham Banks wrote:
tmokonen wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote:Stockfish for 39 dollars.

http://www.chess4less.com/cheap/1/003939.html

+ a database.
http://www.newinchess.com/Master_Chess_ ... -2373.html

Apparently, it's by the same guy that made the program Bookup... and Dzindzi? How did he get involved in all this?

I hope they're cutting royalty cheques for Tord, Marco and Joona.
Does this mean that Stockfish should now be considered as a commercial engine rather than non-commercial?
No. It's a free engine, someone has just decided to bundle it with their commercial product. This is legal, precisely because Stockfish is free. See the GPL license for details.

The marketing could have been more tasteful: "Strongest human like program ever produced" is a meaningless statement and "recently beat deep Rybka 4 in a tournament" is irrelevant. They should also have explained up front that Stockfish is available for free and where to get it. But regrettably, stretching the truth in marketing is neither unusual nor illegal.

Of course, neither Marco, Joona nor I have anything to do with this product, and we don't earn any money from it (nor do we want to). It is very unfortunate that this isn't clear from the information on the web page.

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Graham Banks
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Re: Stockfish for 39 dollars.

Post by Graham Banks » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:11 am

Tord Romstad wrote:
Graham Banks wrote:
tmokonen wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote:Stockfish for 39 dollars.

http://www.chess4less.com/cheap/1/003939.html

+ a database.
http://www.newinchess.com/Master_Chess_ ... -2373.html

Apparently, it's by the same guy that made the program Bookup... and Dzindzi? How did he get involved in all this?

I hope they're cutting royalty cheques for Tord, Marco and Joona.
Does this mean that Stockfish should now be considered as a commercial engine rather than non-commercial?
No. It's a free engine, someone has just decided to bundle it with their commercial product. This is legal, precisely because Stockfish is free. See the GPL license for details.

The marketing could have been more tasteful: "Strongest human like program ever produced" is a meaningless statement and "recently beat deep Rybka 4 in a tournament" is irrelevant. They should also have explained up front that Stockfish is available for free and where to get it. But regrettably, stretching the truth in marketing is neither unusual nor illegal.

Of course, neither Marco, Joona nor I have anything to do with this product, and we don't earn any money from it (nor do we want to). It is very unfortunate that this isn't clear from the information on the web page.
Thanks for the clarification Tord. :D

Cheers,
Graham.
My email addresses:
gbanksnz at gmail.com
gbanksnz at yahoo.co.nz

Frank Quisinsky
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Re: Stockfish for 39 dollars.

Post by Frank Quisinsky » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:17 am

Hi Graham,

but it's clear to 100% after the interview. A typical commercial announcement we know from comparable others products in the past. Not more or less.

Best
Frank
I like computer chess!

Tord Romstad
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Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Stockfish for 39 dollars.

Post by Tord Romstad » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:32 am

Graham Banks wrote:Thanks for the clarification Tord. :D
You're welcome. :)

I just realized that I probably came across as being a little angry and annoyed in my previous post. In case it wasn't clear, my annoyance is of course not directed towards you or anybody else who posted in this thread, but only towards the way this product is marketed.

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michiguel
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Re: Stockfish for 39 dollars.

Post by michiguel » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:39 am

Tord Romstad wrote:
Graham Banks wrote:Thanks for the clarification Tord. :D
You're welcome. :)

I just realized that I probably came across as being a little angry and annoyed in my previous post. In case it wasn't clear, my annoyance is of course not directed towards you or anybody else who posted in this thread, but only towards the way this product is marketed.
As you said, as long as they provide the source code... (I do not see why not, they always provided the code for their own product for extra money).

They have been in the database business for more than two decades, not the engine business. What they, I imagine, are interested in is in hooking up their databases with engines. For instance, they were the first, if am not mistaken, to provide epd support to link functions between DB and engines to perform some very creative tasks. Their product "Bookup", at the beginning of 90's was extremely original.

If they follow up on that, their originality would be not on the engine (of course), but on how they integrate it (I guess...)

Maybe I am wrong... but I would not expect a commercial product to stick in the box a URL to where download one GPL component, as much as some commercial Linux distros to provide in the box a URL to where download the Linux kernel.

Miguel

Tord Romstad
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Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Stockfish for 39 dollars.

Post by Tord Romstad » Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:23 am

michiguel wrote:They have been in the database business for more than two decades, not the engine business. What they, I imagine, are interested in is in hooking up their databases with engines. For instance, they were the first, if am not mistaken, to provide epd support to link functions between DB and engines to perform some very creative tasks. Their product "Bookup", at the beginning of 90's was extremely original.

If they follow up on that, their originality would be not on the engine (of course), but on how they integrate it (I guess...)
Absolutely. I have no doubt that it's an excellent product, and that it is well worth the money for a lot of customers. The GUI and database functions must be a lot of work, and there is nothing bad about asking money for it. I can't speak on behalf of rest of my team, but personally I am very happy to see that people are able to earn money by selling commercial software built around Stockfish, as long as they don't break the GPL.

We just want to make it absolutely clear that Marco, Joona and I have nothing to do with MasterChess 7000, and that we do not earn any money from it.
Maybe I am wrong... but I would not expect a commercial product to stick in the box a URL to where download one GPL component, as much as some commercial Linux distros to provide in the box a URL to where download the Linux kernel.
I don't think you are wrong. Nobody is doing anything illegal. I just have some issues with the way the product is marketed. Dishonest and exaggerated marketing always grates me, and it's even worse when it talks about a program of which I am a co-author. Just look at the front of the DVD box. It says nothing about the GUI, database features, or the other original work they have done. It's all about Stockfish, and it's all untrue, exaggerated or nonsense (and notice the inconsistent capitalization and multiple explanation marks):
Stockfish Engine - Elo rating 3137
Plays the best Human Chess ever!!
Stockfish - Plays as good as Rybka! and gives a more realistic material evaluation.
Stockfish - has the most Human like understanding of Chess ever!!!
Reading this as the only information apart from a "1.8 Million Game Database" on front of a commercial package with which I have nothing to do makes me rather annoyed. I'd prefer if they just described their own product, and perhaps added a line like "Includes the strong open source chess engine Stockfish" at the end.

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