Deep Fritz vs. Deep Junior -- Game 4: 0-1 (Junior again!)

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Enrico

Deep Fritz vs. Deep Junior -- Game 4: 0-1 (Junior again!)

Post by Enrico » Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:27 am

[Event "Fritz vs Junior Match"]
[Site "Elista"]
[Date "2007/6/9"]
[Round "R1G4"]
[White "Deep Fritz"]
[Black "Deep Junior"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Board "a.gao8ke3"]
[Input "DGT3242"]
[Owner "Casto Abundo"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Nf3 c5 8.
Rb1 O-O 9. Be2 Nc6 10. d5 Ne5 11. Nxe5 Bxe5 12. Qd2 e6 13. f4 Bc7 14. O-O exd5
15. exd5 Ba5 16. f5 Bxf5 17. Rxb7 Qd6 18. Bc4 Qe5 19. Rf3 Rab8 20. Rxa7 Bb6 21.
Ra4 Bc7 22. g3 Rb1 23. Re3 Qf6 24. Ra6 Bd6 25. Re1 Rfb8 26. Bf1 h5 27. a4 c4
28. Rc6 Ra1 29. Bxc4 Bd7 30. Rf1 Qe7 31. Rxd6 Qxd6 32. Qf2 Qb6 33. Bf4 Qxf2+
34. Kxf2 Rb2+ 35. Ke3 Rxa4 36. Bd3 Rxh2 37. c4 Ra3 38. Kd4 h4 39. g4 Rh3 40.
Be2 Rhb3 41. Ke5 Rb2 42. Re1 Raa2 43. Bd1 Ra6 44. Bc1 Rb8 45. Rg1 h3 46. Rh1
f6+ 47. Kd4 Ra1 48. Bc2 g5 49. c5 Bxg4 50. c6 Kf7 51. Rf1 Rh8 52. d6 h2 53. d7
Ke7 54. Rh1 0-1

Tony Thomas

Re: Deep Fritz vs. Deep Junior -- Game 4: 0-1 (Junior again

Post by Tony Thomas » Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:17 am

Looks like Junior is going to win this tournament without any problems.

Erik Roggenburg

Re: Deep Fritz vs. Deep Junior -- Game 4: 0-1 (Junior again

Post by Erik Roggenburg » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:25 am

In the ratings lists I see, Deep Fritz 10 rates higher than Deep Junior 10. What could be leading to Junior's solid performance in this match?

Opening preparation?
Better hardware?
Good luck?
Something else?

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Graham Banks
Posts: 33016
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:52 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: Deep Fritz vs. Deep Junior -- Game 4: 0-1 (Junior again

Post by Graham Banks » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:45 am

Erik Roggenburg wrote:In the ratings lists I see, Deep Fritz 10 rates higher than Deep Junior 10. What could be leading to Junior's solid performance in this match?

Opening preparation?
Better hardware?
Good luck?
Something else?
Perhaps it's Deep Junior 11?

Yar
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:00 pm
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Deep Fritz vs. Deep Junior -- Game 4: 0-1 (Junior again

Post by Yar » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:08 am

Before match I thought Fritz has more chances to win. It seems I was wrong :-)

Spock

Re: Deep Fritz vs. Deep Junior -- Game 4: 0-1 (Junior again

Post by Spock » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:17 am

Is the hardware not a factor ?

Yar
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:00 pm
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Deep Fritz vs. Deep Junior -- Game 4: 0-1 (Junior again

Post by Yar » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:29 am

I don't think 8 or 16 processor is a factor. For example rybka beat 512 CPUs Zappa in Paderborn 2005 by black. Probably Junior team has better opening book preparation.

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M ANSARI
Posts: 3408
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:10 pm

Re: Deep Fritz vs. Deep Junior -- Game 4: 0-1 (Junior again

Post by M ANSARI » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:35 am

It seems that hardware is a big factor and maybe book is even a bigger factor. I would give the first loss by Fritz as a book loss since Fritz got out of book in a clearly inferior position. Also Junior 11 might be a good improvement over Junior 10 ... especially in the scaling department. But let's not forget the last time both played a match ... Junior was way ahead ... only for Fritz to come back and win it in the final game.

Uri Blass
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Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: Deep Fritz vs. Deep Junior -- Game 4: 0-1 (Junior again

Post by Uri Blass » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:55 am

Erik Roggenburg wrote:In the ratings lists I see, Deep Fritz 10 rates higher than Deep Junior 10. What could be leading to Junior's solid performance in this match?

Opening preparation?
Better hardware?
Good luck?
Something else?
I do not see Deep Fritz 10 rates higher than Deep Junior10

In the ssdf list Deep Junior10 is rated higher.

http://web.telia.com/~u85924109/ssdf/list.htm

4 Junior 10.1 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz 2867 32 -30 563 72% 2702
5 Junior 10 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz 2851 25 -24 874 70% 2703
11 Fritz 9.0 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz 2807 23 -22 1041 67% 2679

There is no Fritz10 in the list but we can easily get an estimate based on the CCRL rating list



In other rating lists

From the CCRL rating list

Fritz 10 2879 +21 −21 56.9% −49.0 36.5% 745
Fritz 9 2842 +13 −13 50.0% +0.6 34.7% 2116
56.6%

Conclusion:Fritz10 is 37 elo better than Fritz9 and may get ssdf rating of
2844 and we should have in the ssdf list something like:

4 Junior 10.1 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz 2867 32 -30 563 72% 2702
5 Junior 10 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz 2851 25 -24 874 70% 2703
Fritz 10.0 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz 2844 23 -22 1041 67% 2679


Note that Fritz performs relatively better in tournaments like CCRL when opening books are not used and I guess that Fritz is simply relatively better in the opening stage that is less relevant when you play games with an opening book.


Note that even without book not everybody see big advantage for Fritz

From the CCRL rating list:
http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4040/index.html

7 Deep Fritz 10 4CPU 2923 +24 −24 51.8% −12.2 38.7% 540
51.4%
8 Deep Junior 10 4CPU 2922 +22 −22 52.3% −11.9 35.4% 690
100.0%

Uri

Uri Blass
Posts: 8557
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:37 pm
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Re: Deep Fritz vs. Deep Junior -- Game 4: 0-1 (Junior again

Post by Uri Blass » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:58 am

Yar wrote:I don't think 8 or 16 processor is a factor. For example rybka beat 512 CPUs Zappa in Paderborn 2005 by black. Probably Junior team has better opening book preparation.
I doubt if zappa used 512 processors in that game.
If I remember correctly they did not use them against rybka.

Uri

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