i am not the one selling any of the computers on Ebay
people i dont even know are selling them
as far as i know Rajlich's who made the initial post programmed and markets Rybka
if someone unrelated to Rybkas programming and marketing teams made a post with information about the Fide match(which is already 30 days old BTW)and the Rybka counter-challenge then i would have no issue with it
Steve
Forbiding Vas to post it only because he is in the rybka team will have practically no effect on the content of the messages here.
I will have no problem to post information like that in the hypotetical case that a commercial programmer asks me to do it and in this case you will even not know that the programmer asked me to do it.
Uri
i think you would have a problem with it Uri
i know i would
Nelson Hernandez wrote:Imagine if he IS putting the $100,000 on the table from his own bank account. That takes nerve, and it adds to the drama. I really believe it could get a ton of publicity and that it might even upstage the championship match as people finally realized that the quality of the computer games considerably surpassed those of the human games. But in my judgment Chessbase will never accept this challenge as it doesn't make business sense to lose such a match. They have much more to lose than to gain, while Rajlich has much more to gain than to lose.
It's an interesting bet, but I don't think Vas is risking much. One, the probability that FIDE accepts is very low; two, if they do accept, it's more than likely Rybka would win. So I would put the actual risk to Vas of losing money at less than 5%. That's a good bet, even if he doesn't have the money! (They would obviously require a performance bond prior to the match.)
It's also a very good attempt to torpedo the Chessbase match. It'll depend on how widely his letter gets distributed.
Will
i wonder if this whole thread is a charter violation actually
is it not merely a disguised Commercial exhortation??
Hmmm Regards
Steve
Even assuming that it is commercial exhoration(and the moderators do not think like that)
I wonder what is your problem with commercial exhortation.
It is against the charter but it can also cause ignorance.
Not allowing commercial exhortation means not knowing information.
People who read this site may miss information that program X is commercial because if the programmer tell us about it then it is commercial exhortation even if he gives no link because people can use google to find a link.
I plan to respect the charter that forbids commercial exhortation
but I do not plan to complain about a post that gives new information
even if it is against the charter because of commercial exhortation.
Uri
i am against ALL commercial exhortations because it is against the charter even if some of them also give some additional information and to allow them will only turn this place into a meat martket with ads all day long
the charter has worked well for almost 10 years
the odd commercial exhortation that also provides information simply cannot be allowed because then the more common commercial exhortation that provides no information will soon also be allowed and that will turn this place into a meat market
one can always try to show in any commercial exhortation that some new information is included and it then becomes impossible to manage
the charter does not mention
all commercial exhortations are allowed IF they can also tell us a little something we did not know before
Steve
Steve,
Then if you want to take it that far, all the CCRL, CEGT and all other testings posted in the tournament section exhorts commercial programs. Rybka is exhorted in all these tournaments because it's always at the top.
If the Strelka or Glaurung authors made the challenge, would that be ok? Let's face it, only the best program could logically make that challenge. It's news, plain and simple.
Major, 45 Commando, Royal Marines,
Condor Barracks, Arbroath, Scotland
Nelson Hernandez wrote:Imagine if he IS putting the $100,000 on the table from his own bank account. That takes nerve, and it adds to the drama. I really believe it could get a ton of publicity and that it might even upstage the championship match as people finally realized that the quality of the computer games considerably surpassed those of the human games. But in my judgment Chessbase will never accept this challenge as it doesn't make business sense to lose such a match. They have much more to lose than to gain, while Rajlich has much more to gain than to lose.
It's an interesting bet, but I don't think Vas is risking much. One, the probability that FIDE accepts is very low; two, if they do accept, it's more than likely Rybka would win. So I would put the actual risk to Vas of losing money at less than 5%. That's a good bet, even if he doesn't have the money! (They would obviously require a performance bond prior to the match.)
It's also a very good attempt to torpedo the Chessbase match. It'll depend on how widely his letter gets distributed.
Will
i wonder if this whole thread is a charter violation actually
is it not merely a disguised Commercial exhortation??
Hmmm Regards
Steve
Even assuming that it is commercial exhoration(and the moderators do not think like that)
I wonder what is your problem with commercial exhortation.
It is against the charter but it can also cause ignorance.
Not allowing commercial exhortation means not knowing information.
People who read this site may miss information that program X is commercial because if the programmer tell us about it then it is commercial exhortation even if he gives no link because people can use google to find a link.
I plan to respect the charter that forbids commercial exhortation
but I do not plan to complain about a post that gives new information
even if it is against the charter because of commercial exhortation.
Uri
i am against ALL commercial exhortations because it is against the charter even if some of them also give some additional information and to allow them will only turn this place into a meat martket with ads all day long
the charter has worked well for almost 10 years
the odd commercial exhortation that also provides information simply cannot be allowed because then the more common commercial exhortation that provides no information will soon also be allowed and that will turn this place into a meat market
one can always try to show in any commercial exhortation that some new information is included and it then becomes impossible to manage
the charter does not mention
all commercial exhortations are allowed IF they can also tell us a little something we did not know before
Steve
Steve,
Then if you want to take it that far, all the CCRL, CEGT and all other testings posted in the tournament section exhorts commercial programs. Rybka is exhorted in all these tournaments because it's always at the top.
If the Strelka or Glaurung authors made the challenge, would that be ok? Let's face it, only the best program could logically make that challenge. It's news, plain and simple.
nope
these groups are independent testers for which i have great respect
they tell it like it is.. come hell or high water
Note also that I disagree with Steve and he cannot learn from himself about me.
I believe that I will never have an objection to post an interesting information by an author of a commercial program if the author asks me to do it(note that it never happened in the past) and steve will never know if the I post the interesting information because of the fact that the author asked me to do it or because of another reason so he will not have a basis to complain.
perhaps Graham if you were footing the bill here only to see others get free adverstising from your money then you might view commercial exhortations a bit differently
as far as the post
i see a game being shown where Hiarcs beat Rybka
and then i see other posts in that thread showing more games ?
i see no overt mention of money or prize funds etc etc
perhaps Graham if you were footing the bill here only to see others get free adverstising from your money then you might view commercial exhortations a bit differently
as far as the post
i see a game being shown where Hiarcs beat Rybka
and then i see other posts in that thread showing more games ?
i see no overt mention of money or prize funds etc etc
Steve
Free advertising needs no mention of money or prize funds.
Please note that I was okay with Harvey's post also, even though the mods received complaints about it.
perhaps Graham if you were footing the bill here only to see others get free adverstising from your money then you might view commercial exhortations a bit differently
as far as the post
i see a game being shown where Hiarcs beat Rybka
and then i see other posts in that thread showing more games ?
i see no overt mention of money or prize funds etc etc
Steve
Free advertising needs no mention of money or prize funds.
Please note that I was okay with Harvey's post also, even though the mods received complaints about it.
Regards, Graham.
let me take this opportunity to say this will be my last post on the subject(i can hear the cheers coming from the membership at large)
i simply cant take on everybody all at once
getting too old for that sort of thing
Exhausted Already Regards
Steve
Last edited by Steve B on Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
perhaps Graham if you were footing the bill here only to see others get free adverstising from your money then you might view commercial exhortations a bit differently
And you DON'T think that was free advertising for Hiarcs ???????
I give up. (And no, I didn't complain about it)
Then try to compare that thread with the thread here and ask yourself these questions:
1) Which thread contains the most interesting discussions with regard to this $100.000 challenge?
2) Did your posts in this thread help or prevent interesting discussions from taking off?
3) What could be the reason that the Rybka forum is far more interesting for readers interested in computer chess than the CCC forum these days?
1)actually the proper place for Rybkas counter challenge is in the Rybka forum
seems like just common sense to me
Steve
Steve, I dont agree with you in this matter either. The only reason I found out about Fide's ultimate challenge was because of Vasik's Challenge. I also think that the only reason he made that challenge was to show the rest of the world how much of a lie Fide was spreading by arranging such an ultimate challenge. Note that those claimed Ultimate engines arent even on top 3.
