Komodo vs GM Smerdon knight odds match

[lkaufman]

The problem is just that knight odds is huge, it may well be that no rating is high enough to give knight odds to 2500 GM at 15' + 10" rapid.

Yes, Miro is convinced of that now. The real puzzle is how GMs could have predicted one-sided victory for the engine before the match. (Miro predicted 5 1/2 - 1/2 in favor of the human. Svidler thought it was inconceivable that the human would score any less than 5-1.) Miro joked that that says something about GMs, i.e. they don't know chess. Smerdon claimed that guys like GM Sadler were predicting 6-0 in favor of the engine. If that's true, what is Sadler not understanding? I suspect that he's lost all rationality when it comes to computers.

I would like to see Komodo with a Knight tempo, such as for Komodo 1.e4 1... then Black or the GM removes the white knight and White or Komodo makes another White move against any GM FIDE 2400 player soon. I would even donate some money for Larry to give to whoever accept the challenge $150 for a win and $25 for a Draw. Larry can ask for donations for this match to begin soon.

PS: Larry just tell me where to send my first donation to; and others chess enthusiast can do the same, even a small $15.00 from each one of us will get enough Money.

I think the simplest way is this: We're still selling Komodo 11 for just under $18, but we'll probably make it free soon. So anyone who wants to contribute to prize fund for future handicap matches with IM/GM players please purchase 1 or more copies of Komodo 11, even if you have no need for it, and I'll treat such purchases as donations for prize funds. Regarding the details for future matches, some points:
1. I was originally enthusiastic about knight for tempo handicap, but having analyzed it a bit I see a problem. The French defense is still quite good, it is a defense that minimizes the value of a tempo. In fact in normal chess after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 or 3.Nd2 the reply 3...h6 is quite playable! Of course the tempo does help a bit, but not as much as I thought it would. But it should be about fair for 2400 FIDE at 15' + 10".
2. You say "GM FIDE 2400" player. Of course there are older GMs rated 2400 and lower (I'm one of them), but normally 2400 is IM level. Perhaps you meant IM?
3. At the moment our most likely candidate for next match is GM Alex Lenderman, born 1989, FIDE 2634, rapid 2642, blitz 2651. He has already played two matches with Komodo, roughly 2 and 4 years ago. Nothing is definite yet but late May is a likely time for it.
4. For a fairly strong GM like Lenderman, either knight odds in 960 or knight for pawn (b,c,d,or e) at 15' + 10" seems about right.
5. Any IMs or GMs who are interested in playing such online matches please email komodochess or me about it.

I already have Komodo 11 for Android, do you have any newer version for Android that I can purchase and this way make my donation ?
I saw this version for only $4.99. Is this a true copy or a fake ? https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... 3&hl=en_US

Komodo for Android is a separate project, the $5 price is right but we don't even know about individual sales, and not much of the $5 ends up with us. The Android version is not really profitable, it's primarily a way of making Komodo better known. By all means buy it if you use it on Android, but donations for prize fund need to be thru the komodochess site, preferably by buying the cheap Windows version so I'll know it is intended as a donation.

[Chessqueen]

The problem is just that knight odds is huge, it may well be that no rating is high enough to give knight odds to 2500 GM at 15' + 10" rapid.

Yes, Miro is convinced of that now. The real puzzle is how GMs could have predicted one-sided victory for the engine before the match. (Miro predicted 5 1/2 - 1/2 in favor of the human. Svidler thought it was inconceivable that the human would score any less than 5-1.) Miro joked that that says something about GMs, i.e. they don't know chess. Smerdon claimed that guys like GM Sadler were predicting 6-0 in favor of the engine. If that's true, what is Sadler not understanding? I suspect that he's lost all rationality when it comes to computers.

I would like to see Komodo with a Knight tempo, such as for Komodo 1.e4 1... then Black or the GM removes the white knight and White or Komodo makes another White move against any GM FIDE 2400 player soon. I would even donate some money for Larry to give to whoever accept the challenge $150 for a win and $25 for a Draw. Larry can ask for donations for this match to begin soon.

PS: Larry just tell me where to send my first donation to; and others chess enthusiast can do the same, even a small $15.00 from each one of us will get enough Money.

I think the simplest way is this: We're still selling Komodo 11 for just under $18, but we'll probably make it free soon. So anyone who wants to contribute to prize fund for future handicap matches with IM/GM players please purchase 1 or more copies of Komodo 11, even if you have no need for it, and I'll treat such purchases as donations for prize funds. Regarding the details for future matches, some points:
1. I was originally enthusiastic about knight for tempo handicap, but having analyzed it a bit I see a problem. The French defense is still quite good, it is a defense that minimizes the value of a tempo. In fact in normal chess after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 or 3.Nd2 the reply 3...h6 is quite playable! Of course the tempo does help a bit, but not as much as I thought it would. But it should be about fair for 2400 FIDE at 15' + 10".
2. You say "GM FIDE 2400" player. Of course there are older GMs rated 2400 and lower (I'm one of them), but normally 2400 is IM level. Perhaps you meant IM?
3. At the moment our most likely candidate for next match is GM Alex Lenderman, born 1989, FIDE 2634, rapid 2642, blitz 2651. He has already played two matches with Komodo, roughly 2 and 4 years ago. Nothing is definite yet but late May is a likely time for it.
4. For a fairly strong GM like Lenderman, either knight odds in 960 or knight for pawn (b,c,d,or e) at 15' + 10" seems about right.
5. Any IMs or GMs who are interested in playing such online matches please email komodochess or me about it.

I already have Komodo 11 for Android, do you have any newer version for Android that I can purchase and this way make my donation ?
I saw this version for only $4.99. Is this a true copy or a fake ? https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... 3&hl=en_US

Komodo for Android is a separate project, the $5 price is right but we don't even know about individual sales, and not much of the $5 ends up with us. The Android version is not really profitable, it's primarily a way of making Komodo better known. By all means buy it if you use it on Android, but donations for prize fund need to be thru the komodochess site, preferably by buying the cheap Windows version so I'll know it is intended as a donation.

Thanks, for the information. I will use the Komodochess site so I can donate and hopefully see another Human versus Komodo match soon, there are lot of available Fide 2400 sitting at home, even IM Andras Toth who was making comments should be available if you make contact with him. The Offer should be a little be more lucrative such as $150.00 for a Win and $35.00 for a Draw.

[Chessqueen]

The problem is just that knight odds is huge, it may well be that no rating is high enough to give knight odds to 2500 GM at 15' + 10" rapid.

Yes, Miro is convinced of that now. The real puzzle is how GMs could have predicted one-sided victory for the engine before the match. (Miro predicted 5 1/2 - 1/2 in favor of the human. Svidler thought it was inconceivable that the human would score any less than 5-1.) Miro joked that that says something about GMs, i.e. they don't know chess. Smerdon claimed that guys like GM Sadler were predicting 6-0 in favor of the engine. If that's true, what is Sadler not understanding? I suspect that he's lost all rationality when it comes to computers.

I would like to see Komodo with a Knight tempo, such as for Komodo 1.e4 1... then Black or the GM removes the white knight and White or Komodo makes another White move against any GM FIDE 2400 player soon. I would even donate some money for Larry to give to whoever accept the challenge $150 for a win and $25 for a Draw. Larry can ask for donations for this match to begin soon.

PS: Larry just tell me where to send my first donation to; and others chess enthusiast can do the same, even a small $15.00 from each one of us will get enough Money.

I think the simplest way is this: We're still selling Komodo 11 for just under $18, but we'll probably make it free soon. So anyone who wants to contribute to prize fund for future handicap matches with IM/GM players please purchase 1 or more copies of Komodo 11, even if you have no need for it, and I'll treat such purchases as donations for prize funds. Regarding the details for future matches, some points:
1. I was originally enthusiastic about knight for tempo handicap, but having analyzed it a bit I see a problem. The French defense is still quite good, it is a defense that minimizes the value of a tempo. In fact in normal chess after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 or 3.Nd2 the reply 3...h6 is quite playable! Of course the tempo does help a bit, but not as much as I thought it would. But it should be about fair for 2400 FIDE at 15' + 10".
2. You say "GM FIDE 2400" player. Of course there are older GMs rated 2400 and lower (I'm one of them), but normally 2400 is IM level. Perhaps you meant IM?
3. At the moment our most likely candidate for next match is GM Alex Lenderman, born 1989, FIDE 2634, rapid 2642, blitz 2651. He has already played two matches with Komodo, roughly 2 and 4 years ago. Nothing is definite yet but late May is a likely time for it.
4. For a fairly strong GM like Lenderman, either knight odds in 960 or knight for pawn (b,c,d,or e) at 15' + 10" seems about right.
5. Any IMs or GMs who are interested in playing such online matches please email komodochess or me about it.

I already have Komodo 11 for Android, do you have any newer version for Android that I can purchase and this way make my donation ?
I saw this version for only $4.99. Is this a true copy or a fake ? https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... 3&hl=en_US

Komodo for Android is a separate project, the $5 price is right but we don't even know about individual sales, and not much of the $5 ends up with us. The Android version is not really profitable, it's primarily a way of making Komodo better known. By all means buy it if you use it on Android, but donations for prize fund need to be thru the komodochess site, preferably by buying the cheap Windows version so I'll know it is intended as a donation.

Thanks, for the information. I will use the Komodochess site so I can donate and hopefully see another Human versus Komodo match soon, there are lot of available Fide 2400 sitting at home, even IM Andras Toth who was making comments should be available if you make contact with him. The Offer should be a little be more lucrative such as $150.00 for a Win and $35.00 for a Draw.

I just realized that IM Andras Toth Fide rating is too low, but you can select any of these Indian IM from 2400 to 2450. I bet you that they are sitting at home with computer doing nothing and able to play a match vs Komodo : Rank # from #58 to #91 or from 2400 to 2452 ttps://ratings.fide.com/topfed.phtml?ina=1&country=IND

[lkaufman]

Well, Toth is 23 elo below the desired 2400, but since we're already in touch and he has the experience of commenting this match and has his own stream, he might be a suitable choice for an IM.

[Chessqueen]

Well, Toth is 23 elo below the desired 2400, but since we're already in touch and he has the experience of commenting this match and has his own stream, he might be a suitable choice for an IM.

Can you create a POLL for us to predict and to see how many people here believe that Komodo could win a 6 games match of Knight plus a tempo against IM Andras Toth . Please Create a Poll .

[lkaufman]

Last I heard polls weren't working here; has that been fixed? But meanwhile, a new idea is under discussion; it has been proposed on this forum in the past, but never tried. This would be for a GM, perhaps a reasonably strong one. Komodo gives knight odds, but Black can't castle. Since castling rights are usually worth close to a pawn on a full board, this is probably just a bit more than knight for pawn, feels about right. But I'm wondering if weak players will think "that's not a handicap, I'd sac a knight to stop castling". That's nonsense, but would it be a common misperception?

[jp]

But meanwhile, a new idea is under discussion; it has been proposed on this forum in the past, but never tried. This would be for a GM, perhaps a reasonably strong one. Komodo gives knight odds, but Black can't castle. Since castling rights are usually worth close to a pawn on a full board, this is probably just a bit more than knight for pawn, feels about right. But I'm wondering if weak players will think "that's not a handicap, I'd sac a knight to stop castling". That's nonsense, but would it be a common misperception?

I think, whatever the perception, the results will speak for themselves. It's hard to guess prior perceptions, when even e.g. GM Sadler predicted a 6-0 Komodo win. (The more I think about that prediction, the crazier it seems. If Smerdon had lost the first few games to Komodo, maybe by blundering pieces in every one like he did in game 1, surely he would have tried to stabilize by drawing the next one or two. I don't know how Sadler could think that a GM with an extra knight who is determined to draw from move 1 could not achieve that aim.)

Personally, I think I don't like this new idea as much, because it feels like one extra change, i.e. it's getting further and further from regular chess.

[Chessqueen]

But meanwhile, a new idea is under discussion; it has been proposed on this forum in the past, but never tried. This would be for a GM, perhaps a reasonably strong one. Komodo gives knight odds, but Black can't castle. Since castling rights are usually worth close to a pawn on a full board, this is probably just a bit more than knight for pawn, feels about right. But I'm wondering if weak players will think "that's not a handicap, I'd sac a knight to stop castling". That's nonsense, but would it be a common misperception?

I think, whatever the perception, the results will speak for themselves. It's hard to guess prior perceptions, when even e.g. GM Sadler predicted a 6-0 Komodo win. (The more I think about that prediction, the crazier it seems. If Smerdon had lost the first few games to Komodo, maybe by blundering pieces in every one like he did in game 1, surely he would have tried to stabilize by drawing the next one or two. I don't know how Sadler could think that a GM with an extra knight who is determined to draw from move 1 could not achieve that aim.)

Personally, I think I don't like this new idea as much, because it feels like one extra change, i.e. it's getting further and further from regular chess.

Honestly it is not like getting further and further away from chess, But if Carlsen had offered just like Bobby Fischer said that he could give a Knight odds to any female World Champion, but of course nowadays we have stronger female players and Carlsen will lose horribly. But the point is if Fischer and the female world champion had played back then everything would have been acceptable, but because it is an engine like Komodo you and many other can NOT accept it. What we are dealing here is the fact that Komodo has the same advantage as being way way much stronger than an IM Like Andras Toth as Fischer did against any female back then.

[lkaufman]

But meanwhile, a new idea is under discussion; it has been proposed on this forum in the past, but never tried. This would be for a GM, perhaps a reasonably strong one. Komodo gives knight odds, but Black can't castle. Since castling rights are usually worth close to a pawn on a full board, this is probably just a bit more than knight for pawn, feels about right. But I'm wondering if weak players will think "that's not a handicap, I'd sac a knight to stop castling". That's nonsense, but would it be a common misperception?

I think, whatever the perception, the results will speak for themselves. It's hard to guess prior perceptions, when even e.g. GM Sadler predicted a 6-0 Komodo win. (The more I think about that prediction, the crazier it seems. If Smerdon had lost the first few games to Komodo, maybe by blundering pieces in every one like he did in game 1, surely he would have tried to stabilize by drawing the next one or two. I don't know how Sadler could think that a GM with an extra knight who is determined to draw from move 1 could not achieve that aim.)

Personally, I think I don't like this new idea as much, because it feels like one extra change, i.e. it's getting further and further from regular chess.

Honestly it is not like getting further and further away from chess, But if Carlsen had offered just like Bobby Fischer said that he could give a Knight odds to any female World Champion, but of course nowadays we have stronger female players and Carlsen will lose horribly. But the point is if Fischer and the female world champion had played back then everything would have been acceptable, but because it is an engine like Komodo you and many other can NOT accept it. What we are dealing here is the fact that Komodo has the same advantage as being way way much stronger than an IM Like Andras Toth as Fischer did against any female back then.

Actually, Nona Gaprindashvili, World's women's champion 1962 to 1978, earned the regular GM title and peaked at 2495 FIDE. Probably she was at least 2400 FIDE strength when FIscher made the claim, although I think it was pre-FIDE ratings. So, either : 1. Fischer was talking nonsense or 2. Fischer was talking about blitz chess or 3. Fischer meant the top American woman player at the time. He did beat Hans Ree (then an IM, now GM) giving him knight odds in blitz in at least one game, so 2. would be my guess.

[jp]

Personally, I think I don't like this new idea as much, because it feels like one extra change, i.e. it's getting further and further from regular chess.

Honestly it is not like getting further and further away from chess, But if Carlsen had offered just like Bobby Fischer said that he could give a Knight odds to any female World Champion, but of course nowadays we have stronger female players and Carlsen will lose horribly. But the point is if Fischer and the female world champion had played back then everything would have been acceptable, but because it is an engine like Komodo you and many other can NOT accept it. What we are dealing here is the fact that Komodo has the same advantage as being way way much stronger than an IM Like Andras Toth as Fischer did against any female back then.

Of course removing Black castling rights plus taking away a White Knight (the "new idea") is further away from regular chess than just taking away the White Knight. You've made two changes instead of just one of them. That's just stating an obvious fact. It's got nothing to do with computer engines, nothing to do with females. It's just counting the number of changes.