On the ownership of TakChess

[Rebel]

Chris, I don't remember a contract. Enlighten me.

[Harvey Williamson]

Chris,
Do you have a copy of that contract?

[chrisw]

Chris,
Do you have a copy of that contract?

Doubt it, it was nearly quarter of a century ago. I remember the gist of it though.

[chrisw]

Chris, I don't remember a contract. Enlighten me.

Of course there was. Do you imagine the forum was just handed to ICD with no control or guidelines on ICD about what they could do or not do?

Do you imagine that ICD set it all up by themselves without getting us to agree to post to it and not rgcc?

Do you not remember Bob refusing to go along with that term and saying he was also going to continue with rgcc?

You forgot that ICD were not allowed to have any commercial advantage over other resellers via the forum and that links to ICD and adverts for ICD were not allowed?

You forgot that ICD only agreed to host it at all on the basis that we got Bruce and Bob to participate?

You forgot that “moderation” was agreed to be in hands of “founders” and that ICD was to have zero role at all in any “moderation”?

This was all composed by me, set out in email, ratified by the “founders” and agreed by Schwartz.

I was the only one who was interested in putting restrictions on ICD, I don’t think the rest of the “founders” actually thought anything through on issues of “control”. And next on ICD agenda was the coup d’Etat and wholesale ignoring of the agreed restrictions placed on ICD. The rest of you were to idiotic/short-sighted to see what was happening, and Schwartz overrode my password and I got banned from reading or writing to the forum for life. By ICD itself. Coup d’Etat by commercial interest on the forum.

[mclane]

If this was a group email we maybe have copies in the archives.

[hgm]

Note that the page of the pre-phpBB board that Guenther dug up from the way-back machine says "sponsored, designed and hosted by Your Move Chess & Games". It doesn't say "owned by ICD" or "offered to you by ICD". Sponsoring is normally understood to be something different from owning.

[mclane]

For ICD it was a big thing marketing thing and i remember regularly it was posted in
Google groups
Rec.games.chess.computer and .misc
How good the new club is, who the founders were and how many HITS and members the new computer-chess-club CCC had.
There was a broadcasting from the Paris championship. And ICD actively made marketing by saying that the championship and its details were all discussed and informed about in the new club.
The problem in paris was, it was held in a historic building and all behind security
Gates and there was no internet connection for the participants, no windows to open, no food and no drinks to get.
Not even a copy machine or stuff like that. Visitors were not allowed.
All very strange, a modern technical event without modern logistics.
There was also a problem with the chairs.
The chairs that were offered were so dangerous that almost any particpant once or twice hit the ground.


So we broadcasted the data of the tournament via a normal telephone line outside, where chris w. Was sitting in UK and typing it all into the internet.
This was a highlight.


Rgcc has this still all in the archives , the founding years of 1997.

I thought i could have it in my email archives but at that time i changed internet provider from
@prima-ruhr.de into @aol. So i am not sure if i still have the complete correspondence.

But i found out that bob hyatt said he had all filed. The whole internet correspondence of the founders group. Maybe we should contact bob.

[chrisw]

Turn the question round the other way.

Concerning only the forum (not the domain name, not the posts, not the software), just the concept and brand.

Charter says “group of individuals” originated the forum. Eg owns the concept, the name, the brand and the power to “set up the forum”.

Where is the signed document that donates all rights to this intellectual property without any conditions to ICD?

I am one of this “group of individuals”, a prime mover on creating the forum, alongside Ed Schroeder, we are basically the core initiators of this “group of individuals”. I didn’t sign or agree any contract, document, email or anything else giving up IP rights and property, conditionally or unconditionally to ICD.

Without this document, which can’t possibly exist because I haven’t heard of it even, let alone agreed or signed, ICD cannot possibly claim forum “ownership”.

I’ld be inclined for the current interested parties to give ICD/Quentin Turner seven days to demonstrate he has got such a document, and if he hasn’t to cease claiming “he owns the forum” because he doesn’t.

As the only surviving actual programmers of this “group of individuals”, and it’s core creators, me and Ed Schroeder are going to assume Custodian status of the forum. Neither of us (me for sure) are in any way interested in owning or controlling the forum, but we will grant legitimacy and continuation status onto the new version of it.

[hgm]

That would sound reasonable if Ed wasn't firmly in Quentin's camp...

[mclane]

To all readers of rec.games.chess.computer:


The Computer-Chess Club message board is a free service that has been
set up by a group of individuals who became concerned with the
persistent breaches of netiquette occurring on the newsgroup,
rec.games.chess.computer, namely a very high level of off-topic posts
and a very high level of personal insults and abuse.

It was felt that a group where a full range of computer chess ideas
could be discussed, and, if necessary attacked, without also making
personal attacks on the deliverer of the ideas, would be productive.
This might well encourage various well-known figures who were no
longer posting in rec.games.chess.computer to return to the arena of
discussion without fear of insult or abuse.

The CCC is moderated, but not in the traditional sense, there will be no
black-list with regard to passwords, but 'abusive' posts will just be
removed. Persistent 'offenders' may find their passwords withdrawn.
Hopefully this will create an atmosphere in which ideas can be discussed
and attacked, without the bearer of the ideas being attacked as well.

Thus, the Computer-Chess Club is a moderated message board which
is open to the general public (known as "members"). Its purpose is
to allow the members to disseminate and exchange information as it
pertains to computer chess without the distractions of personal
attacks and off-topic posts.

If you would like to participate, please come to
http://www.icdchess.com/ccc.html and sign up for a password which
will allow free access to the message board.

Bob Hyatt
Andreas Mader
Ed Schroeder
Bruce Moreland
Chris Whittington
Enrique Irazoqui
Dirk Frickenschmidt
Thorsten Czub
Moritz Berger
Peter Schreiner

Bob is also a chess programmer and still alive, or ?! And i hope Bruce is also still alive.

Bob Hyatt wrote:

We have a group of 10 people that started the CCC. This group elected
a committee of 3 moderators with a chairman. the term of office ends
after the Paris event. Then we will do this again. So far, there have
been *no* deleted posts. Which is a good sign. It also means that
certain posters haven't visited yet, either, most likely...

Steven Schwartz wrote:

Steven Schwartz
17.10.1997, 09:00:00



an

CCC at http://www.icdchess.com/ccc.html
is a FREE service provided for the sharing
of computer chess information.
Some of the most recognizable names in computer
chess, as well as chess computer enthusiasts,
are there on the CCC message board disseminating
and exchanging information.

The discussions are lively, often heated, but
not personal, because CCC is loosely moderated
which assures that participants will not be
attacked personally because of their views.

If you would like to participate or just
be an observer, please come to
http://www.icdchess.com/ccc.html
and sign up for a password which will allow
FREE access to the Computer-Chess Club
message board.

Computer-Chess Club
ungelesen,
29.10.1997, 09:00:00
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
an

The Computer-Chess Club continues "Live" coverage
of the WMCCC (World Micros) with Round 6 on the CCC
message board along with real-time discussion.
Come join. It's free.
Sign up at http://www.icdchess.com/ccc.html

Profilbild von Computer-Chess Club
Computer-Chess Club
ungelesen,
29.10.1997, 09:00:00



an

On 29 Oct 1997 18:27:47 GMT, alth...@mipool.uni-jena.de (Ingo
Althoefer) wrote:
>
>The game Junior - MChess of round 7 was still running a few minutes ago, but
>Junior had clear advantage ( 3.04 pawn units according to MChess ). If Junior
>will win, the top after round 7 will look like:
>
>1. Virtual Chess II 6.0
>
>2. Junior 5.5
>
>3. MChess 5.0,
>
>and a big crowd following with 4.5 and less .
>
>More information on the CCC News Board at www.icdchess.com/ccc .
>Ingo Althoefer.

New members will have to sign up to get a
free password at...
http://www.icdchess.com/ccc.html

Current members can go directly to...
http://www.icdchess.com/ccc

- The Computer-Chess Club