Dragon by Komodo Chess

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BrendanJNorman
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Re: Dragon by Komodo Chess

Post by BrendanJNorman » Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:59 am

I gotta say, this game is an absolute positional masterpiece by Dragon with MCTS switched ON.

The way Dragon ties up the queenside, freezes the black bishop with 33.e5!! fxe5 (33...Qxe5 34.Qxb6!+-) 34.Be4! is so impressive...then swinging to the kingside once black is tied up.

It's kind of like Vladimir Kramnik on God-mode.



Decent chessplayers will admire the positional genius of this game, while computer nerds will use Stockfish to look for holes...whatever! :roll: :lol:

I have some very special engines for training games already, but Dragon is definitely going to be a serious part of my game/opening analysis in the future.

Great job Komodo team!

Jhoravi
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Re: Dragon by Komodo Chess

Post by Jhoravi » Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:15 am

lkaufman wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:57 am
The problem is that if the handicap is high enough to give humans a good chance (like knight odds or even two pawns), the stronger side almost always wins in self play so it can't really learn how to trick the opponent.
If the stronger side always wins then let it prefer shortest victory vs longer ones. Isn't that possible during training?

Madeleine Birchfield
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Re: Dragon by Komodo Chess

Post by Madeleine Birchfield » Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:21 am

The Komodo Settings and Usage page on the Komodo Chess website needs to be updated. It is currently stuck on Komodo 11.01.

https://komodochess.com/store/pages.php?cmsid=14

The Komodo 13 page needs to be updated as well. It says that Komodo 14 is the current engine, when Komodo 14 has gone on sale and replaced with Dragon as the current engine.

https://komodochess.com/Komodo13.htm

Madeleine Birchfield
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Re: Dragon by Komodo Chess

Post by Madeleine Birchfield » Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:55 am

Same goes with the Frequently Asked Questions page, which seems to be stuck on Komodo 9.3.

https://komodochess.com/store/pages.php?cmsid=20

Marcus9
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Re: Dragon by Komodo Chess

Post by Marcus9 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:59 am

lkaufman wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:57 am
Jhoravi wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:07 am
Hi Larry, Is there any chance of NNUE specialized for losing positions for use in handicap matches?
We actually did include some such positions in the training which might help a bit in such matches, probably not a lot though. The problem is that if the handicap is high enough to give humans a good chance (like knight odds or even two pawns), the stronger side almost always wins in self play so it can't really learn how to trick the opponent. I suppose we could train it by playing against a crippled version of itself, but that might mess up normal play so we haven't tried that. We are considering possible opponents for such a match. I wonder, which players would readers most like to see facing Dragon in a handicap match (other than Magnus Carlsen who has never shown interest in playing such matches with engines)?
How does Dragon fare at giving knight odd in slow bullet? My dream is to see Hikaru Nakamura against Dragon at knight odds in many games 2 '+ 1 " in a row, like 12 or 24 games.
While perhaps Hikaru would still be the favorite, it could be a periodic event to track Komodo's progress.

mjlef
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Re: Dragon by Komodo Chess

Post by mjlef » Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:00 am

Marcus9 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:59 am
lkaufman wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:57 am
Jhoravi wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:07 am
Hi Larry, Is there any chance of NNUE specialized for losing positions for use in handicap matches?
We actually did include some such positions in the training which might help a bit in such matches, probably not a lot though. The problem is that if the handicap is high enough to give humans a good chance (like knight odds or even two pawns), the stronger side almost always wins in self play so it can't really learn how to trick the opponent. I suppose we could train it by playing against a crippled version of itself, but that might mess up normal play so we haven't tried that. We are considering possible opponents for such a match. I wonder, which players would readers most like to see facing Dragon in a handicap match (other than Magnus Carlsen who has never shown interest in playing such matches with engines)?
How does Dragon fare at giving knight odd in slow bullet? My dream is to see Hikaru Nakamura against Dragon at knight odds in many games 2 '+ 1 " in a row, like 12 or 24 games.
While perhaps Hikaru would still be the favorite, it could be a periodic event to track Komodo's progress.
Yes, we definitely need to update these. Note that there is an updated Resume file included in the downloads. For each version.

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AdminX
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Re: Dragon by Komodo Chess

Post by AdminX » Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:06 am

Just read this on Twitter.

Image
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
__________________________________________________________________
Ted Summers

Krzysztof Grzelak
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Re: Dragon by Komodo Chess

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:11 pm

lkaufman wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:05 pm
The file shows a ten game match with Lc0 with a score of one win each and eight draws, and the sole loss was by adjudication, not time. Could you please explain what you think is the problem with Komodo or Dragon time management? It's not obvious from the file.

I noticed that, unfortunately, there is a bug with time compared to other engines. The engine does not lose on time but it has problems with it.

lkaufman
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Re: Dragon by Komodo Chess

Post by lkaufman » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:14 pm

Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:11 pm
lkaufman wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:05 pm
The file shows a ten game match with Lc0 with a score of one win each and eight draws, and the sole loss was by adjudication, not time. Could you please explain what you think is the problem with Komodo or Dragon time management? It's not obvious from the file.

I noticed that, unfortunately, there is a bug with time compared to other engines. The engine does not lose on time but it has problems with it.
Are you just saying that Dragon and Komodo tend to take more time than opposing engines? If so why would you call that a bug? Do you have evidence that we would do better taking less time?
Komodo rules!

carldaman
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Re: Dragon by Komodo Chess

Post by carldaman » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:43 pm

Larry,

Curious, have you given any thought of going up against a strong human GM with Dragon set to Armageddon mode as Black and the human as White? The GM would basically get draw odds with White, if he can get the draw, while Dragon would go all out attacking with Black. It would be an very realistic and exciting handicap.

:)

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