For a change: easy positions for SF, but difficult to SF NN

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Jouni
Posts: 3293
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:15 pm

For a change: easy positions for SF, but difficult to SF NN

Post by Jouni »

[d]8/5pk1/p4npp/1pPN4/1P2p3/1P4PP/5P2/5K2 w - - 0 1
[d]r3r1k1/p3bppp/q1b2n2/5Q2/1p1B4/1BNR4/PPP3PP/2K2R2 w - - 0 1
[d]r4rk1/p4ppp/qp2p3/b5B1/n1R5/5N2/PP2QPPP/1R4K1 w - - 0 1
[d]1n3rk1/3rbppp/p2p4/4pP2/Ppq1P3/1N2B3/1PP3PP/R2Q1R1K w - - 0 1
[d]7q/3k2p1/n1p1p1Pr/1pPpPpQ1/3P1N1p/1P2KP2/6P1/7R w - - 0 1
[d]1r4k1/1q3pp1/r3b2p/p2N4/3R4/QP3P2/2P3PP/1K1R4 w - - 0 1
[d]2r1rb1k/ppq2pp1/4b2p/3pP2Q/5B2/2PB2R1/P4PPP/1R4K1 w - - 0 1
[d]3R4/pp2r1pk/q1p3bp/2P2r2/PP6/2Q3P1/6BP/5RK1 w - - 0 1
From Arasan suite. SF NN has almost always +5 evaluation, but not intended move!?
Jouni
zullil
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: For a change: easy positions for SF, but difficult to SF NN

Post by zullil »

Jouni wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:49 pm
[d]2r1rb1k/ppq2pp1/4b2p/3pP2Q/5B2/2PB2R1/P4PPP/1R4K1 w - - 0 1

From Arasan suite. SF NN has almost always +5 evaluation, but not intended move!?
Here's what I get:

info depth 32 seldepth 70 multipv 1 score cp 193 lowerbound nodes 547569177 nps 20431685 hashfull 247 tbhits 0 time 26800 pv h2h3
info depth 31 currmove h2h3 currmovenumber 1
info depth 31 currmove f4d2 currmovenumber 2
info depth 31 currmove d3b5 currmovenumber 3
info depth 31 currmove h5f3 currmovenumber 4
info depth 31 currmove g3f3 currmovenumber 5
info depth 31 currmove f4e3 currmovenumber 6
info depth 31 currmove h2h4 currmovenumber 7
info depth 31 currmove d3f1 currmovenumber 8
info depth 31 currmove b1b3 currmovenumber 9
info depth 31 currmove b1c1 currmovenumber 10
info depth 31 currmove d3e2 currmovenumber 11
info depth 31 currmove h5g5 currmovenumber 12
info depth 31 currmove h5f5 currmovenumber 13
info depth 31 currmove g3h3 currmovenumber 14
info depth 31 currmove g3g5 currmovenumber 15
info depth 31 currmove b1d1 currmovenumber 16
info depth 31 currmove g3g6 currmovenumber 17
info depth 31 currmove c3c4 currmovenumber 18
info depth 31 currmove d3e4 currmovenumber 19
info depth 31 currmove g3e3 currmovenumber 20
info depth 31 currmove h5g6 currmovenumber 21
info depth 31 currmove b1b2 currmovenumber 22
info depth 31 currmove f4g5 currmovenumber 23
info depth 31 currmove g1h1 currmovenumber 24
info depth 31 currmove g1f1 currmovenumber 25
info depth 31 currmove d3a6 currmovenumber 26
info depth 31 currmove b1b6 currmovenumber 27
info depth 31 currmove h5h4 currmovenumber 28
info depth 31 currmove d3c4 currmovenumber 29
info depth 31 currmove b1e1 currmovenumber 30
info depth 31 currmove b1a1 currmovenumber 31
info depth 31 currmove d3c2 currmovenumber 32
info depth 31 currmove b1b5 currmovenumber 33
info depth 31 currmove g3g4 currmovenumber 34
info depth 31 currmove a2a4 currmovenumber 35
info depth 31 currmove a2a3 currmovenumber 36
info depth 31 currmove d3h7 currmovenumber 37
info depth 31 currmove b1f1 currmovenumber 38
info depth 31 currmove d3f5 currmovenumber 39
info depth 31 currmove h5d1 currmovenumber 40
info depth 31 currmove d3g6 currmovenumber 41
info depth 31 currmove b1b4 currmovenumber 42
info depth 31 currmove f2f3 currmovenumber 43
info depth 31 currmove f4c1 currmovenumber 44
info depth 31 currmove h5g4 currmovenumber 45
info depth 31 currmove h5h3 currmovenumber 46
info depth 31 currmove h5e2 currmovenumber 47
info depth 31 currmove h5h6 currmovenumber 48
info depth 31 currmove f4h6 currmovenumber 49
info depth 31 currmove g3g7 currmovenumber 50
info depth 32 seldepth 72 multipv 1 score cp 241 lowerbound nodes 874226075 nps 20662886 hashfull 368 tbhits 0 time 42309 pv g3g7
info depth 30 currmove g3g7 currmovenumber 1
info depth 32 seldepth 72 multipv 1 score cp 314 lowerbound nodes 874256320 nps 20663113 hashfull 368 tbhits 0 time 42310 pv g3g7
info depth 29 currmove g3g7 currmovenumber 1
info depth 32 seldepth 72 multipv 1 score cp 453 lowerbound nodes 874268629 nps 20662915 hashfull 368 tbhits 0 time 42311 pv g3g7
info depth 28 currmove g3g7 currmovenumber 1
info depth 32 seldepth 72 multipv 1 score cp 615 lowerbound nodes 874274416 nps 20663052 hashfull 368 tbhits 0 time 42311 pv g3g7
info depth 27 currmove g3g7 currmovenumber 1
info depth 27 currmove h2h3 currmovenumber 2
info depth 27 currmove f4d2 currmovenumber 3
info depth 27 currmove d3f1 currmovenumber 4
info depth 27 currmove d3b5 currmovenumber 5
info depth 27 currmove h5f3 currmovenumber 6
info depth 27 currmove f4e3 currmovenumber 7
info depth 27 currmove h2h4 currmovenumber 8
info depth 27 currmove b1b3 currmovenumber 9
info depth 27 currmove g3f3 currmovenumber 10
info depth 27 currmove b1c1 currmovenumber 11
info depth 27 currmove d3e2 currmovenumber 12
info depth 27 currmove b1e1 currmovenumber 13
info depth 27 currmove h5g6 currmovenumber 14
info depth 27 currmove h5g5 currmovenumber 15
info depth 27 currmove h5f5 currmovenumber 16
info depth 27 currmove d3g6 currmovenumber 17
info depth 27 currmove b1b4 currmovenumber 18
info depth 27 currmove d3a6 currmovenumber 19
info depth 27 currmove d3c2 currmovenumber 20
info depth 27 currmove g3g6 currmovenumber 21
info depth 27 currmove d3h7 currmovenumber 22
info depth 27 currmove h5g4 currmovenumber 23
info depth 27 currmove g3g4 currmovenumber 24
info depth 27 currmove d3c4 currmovenumber 25
info depth 27 currmove d3f5 currmovenumber 26
info depth 27 currmove g3g5 currmovenumber 27
info depth 27 currmove b1b6 currmovenumber 28
info depth 27 currmove h5d1 currmovenumber 29
info depth 27 currmove f4g5 currmovenumber 30
info depth 27 currmove b1d1 currmovenumber 31
info depth 27 currmove d3e4 currmovenumber 32
info depth 27 currmove g1f1 currmovenumber 33
info depth 27 currmove b1f1 currmovenumber 34
info depth 27 currmove g3h3 currmovenumber 35
info depth 27 currmove f4c1 currmovenumber 36
info depth 27 currmove c3c4 currmovenumber 37
info depth 27 currmove f2f3 currmovenumber 38
info depth 27 currmove b1b2 currmovenumber 39
info depth 27 currmove b1a1 currmovenumber 40
info depth 27 currmove h5h3 currmovenumber 41
info depth 27 currmove h5e2 currmovenumber 42
info depth 27 currmove h5h4 currmovenumber 43
info depth 27 currmove g1h1 currmovenumber 44
info depth 27 currmove a2a4 currmovenumber 45
info depth 27 currmove g3e3 currmovenumber 46
info depth 27 currmove b1b5 currmovenumber 47
info depth 27 currmove a2a3 currmovenumber 48
info depth 27 currmove h5f7 currmovenumber 49
info depth 27 currmove h5h6 currmovenumber 50
info depth 27 currmove f4h6 currmovenumber 51
info depth 27 currmove b1b7 currmovenumber 52
info depth 32 seldepth 72 multipv 1 score cp 707 nodes 882549531 nps 20674417 hashfull 371 tbhits 0 time 42688 pv g3g7 f8g7 f4h6 e6g4 h6g7 h8g7 h5h7 g7f8 h7h6 f8g8 d3h7 g8h8 h7f5 h8g8 h6h7 g8f8 h7h8 f8e7 h8f6 e7f8 f5g4 c7c6 f6h8 f8e7 h8h4 e7f8 g4c8 e8c8 h2h3 b7b5 b1b4 c6e6 h4g5 c8e8 b4b5 e6e5 b5d5 e5c3 g5h6 c3g7 h6d6 f8g8 g1h2 e8e6 d6d8 g8h7 d8h4 e6h6 h4d4 g7f6 d4a7
info depth 33 currmove g3g7 currmovenumber 1
info depth 33 seldepth 59 multipv 1 score cp 716 lowerbound nodes 884620952 nps 20679343 hashfull 371 tbhits 0 time 42778 pv g3g7
info depth 32 currmove g3g7 currmovenumber 1
info depth 33 seldepth 62 multipv 1 score cp 726 lowerbound nodes 889776801 nps 20694408 hashfull 374 tbhits 0 time 42996 pv g3g7
info depth 31 currmove g3g7 currmovenumber 1
info depth 31 currmove h2h3 currmovenumber 2
info depth 31 currmove f4d2 currmovenumber 3
info depth 31 currmove d3f1 currmovenumber 4
info depth 31 currmove d3b5 currmovenumber 5
info depth 31 currmove b1c1 currmovenumber 6
info depth 31 currmove g3f3 currmovenumber 7
info depth 31 currmove h5f3 currmovenumber 8
info depth 31 currmove b1b3 currmovenumber 9
info depth 31 currmove h2h4 currmovenumber 10
info depth 31 currmove f4e3 currmovenumber 11
info depth 31 currmove d3e2 currmovenumber 12
info depth 31 currmove h5g6 currmovenumber 13
info depth 31 currmove d3g6 currmovenumber 14
info depth 31 currmove b1e1 currmovenumber 15
info depth 31 currmove g1f1 currmovenumber 16
info depth 31 currmove g3h3 currmovenumber 17
info depth 31 currmove f2f3 currmovenumber 18
info depth 31 currmove b1f1 currmovenumber 19
info depth 31 currmove d3c4 currmovenumber 20
info depth 31 currmove b1b4 currmovenumber 21
info depth 31 currmove h5g4 currmovenumber 22
info depth 31 currmove d3a6 currmovenumber 23
info depth 31 currmove g3g6 currmovenumber 24
info depth 31 currmove d3h7 currmovenumber 25
info depth 31 currmove g3g5 currmovenumber 26
info depth 31 currmove c3c4 currmovenumber 27
info depth 31 currmove d3e4 currmovenumber 28
info depth 31 currmove g3g4 currmovenumber 29
info depth 31 currmove d3f5 currmovenumber 30
info depth 31 currmove h5f5 currmovenumber 31
info depth 31 currmove g1h1 currmovenumber 32
info depth 31 currmove b1d1 currmovenumber 33
info depth 31 currmove f4g5 currmovenumber 34
info depth 31 currmove b1a1 currmovenumber 35
info depth 31 currmove h5g5 currmovenumber 36
info depth 31 currmove a2a3 currmovenumber 37
info depth 31 currmove b1b6 currmovenumber 38
info depth 31 currmove a2a4 currmovenumber 39
info depth 31 currmove h5d1 currmovenumber 40
info depth 31 currmove h5e2 currmovenumber 41
info depth 31 currmove b1b5 currmovenumber 42
info depth 31 currmove f4c1 currmovenumber 43
info depth 31 currmove b1b2 currmovenumber 44
info depth 31 currmove g3e3 currmovenumber 45
info depth 31 currmove h5h3 currmovenumber 46
info depth 31 currmove d3c2 currmovenumber 47
info depth 31 currmove h5h4 currmovenumber 48
info depth 31 currmove h5h6 currmovenumber 49
info depth 31 currmove f4h6 currmovenumber 50
info depth 31 currmove h5f7 currmovenumber 51
info depth 31 currmove b1b7 currmovenumber 52
info depth 33 seldepth 66 multipv 1 score cp 698 upperbound nodes 892606995 nps 20700053 hashfull 375 tbhits 0 time 43121 pv g3g7 f8g7
info depth 33 currmove g3g7 currmovenumber 1
info depth 33 currmove h2h3 currmovenumber 2
info depth 33 currmove f4d2 currmovenumber 3
info depth 33 currmove d3f1 currmovenumber 4
info depth 33 currmove f4e3 currmovenumber 5
info depth 33 currmove d3b5 currmovenumber 6
info depth 33 currmove h2h4 currmovenumber 7
info depth 33 currmove b1c1 currmovenumber 8
info depth 33 currmove b1b3 currmovenumber 9
info depth 33 currmove h5f3 currmovenumber 10
info depth 33 currmove g3f3 currmovenumber 11
info depth 33 currmove d3e2 currmovenumber 12
info depth 33 currmove d3g6 currmovenumber 13
info depth 33 currmove g1f1 currmovenumber 14
info depth 33 currmove d3c4 currmovenumber 15
info depth 33 currmove b1f1 currmovenumber 16
info depth 33 currmove d3e4 currmovenumber 17
info depth 33 currmove f2f3 currmovenumber 18
info depth 33 currmove d3a6 currmovenumber 19
info depth 33 currmove b1b4 currmovenumber 20
info depth 33 currmove h5g5 currmovenumber 21
info depth 33 currmove h5g6 currmovenumber 22
info depth 33 currmove b1e1 currmovenumber 23
info depth 33 currmove c3c4 currmovenumber 24
info depth 33 currmove g3g5 currmovenumber 25
info depth 33 currmove a2a3 currmovenumber 26
info depth 33 currmove b1d1 currmovenumber 27
info depth 33 currmove d3f5 currmovenumber 28
info depth 33 currmove h5f5 currmovenumber 29
info depth 33 currmove b1a1 currmovenumber 30
info depth 33 currmove d3c2 currmovenumber 31
info depth 33 currmove g3g4 currmovenumber 32
info depth 33 currmove f4g5 currmovenumber 33
info depth 33 currmove b1b5 currmovenumber 34
info depth 33 currmove b1b6 currmovenumber 35
info depth 33 currmove h5g4 currmovenumber 36
info depth 33 currmove h5d1 currmovenumber 37
info depth 33 currmove a2a4 currmovenumber 38
info depth 33 currmove g3g6 currmovenumber 39
info depth 33 currmove g1h1 currmovenumber 40
info depth 33 currmove g3e3 currmovenumber 41
info depth 33 currmove h5e2 currmovenumber 42
info depth 33 currmove f4c1 currmovenumber 43
info depth 33 currmove d3h7 currmovenumber 44
info depth 33 currmove b1b2 currmovenumber 45
info depth 33 currmove h5h4 currmovenumber 46
info depth 33 currmove h5h3 currmovenumber 47
info depth 33 currmove g3h3 currmovenumber 48
info depth 33 currmove h5h6 currmovenumber 49
info depth 33 currmove h5f7 currmovenumber 50
info depth 33 currmove f4h6 currmovenumber 51
info depth 33 currmove b1b7 currmovenumber 52
info depth 33 seldepth 72 multipv 1 score cp 679 upperbound nodes 899858463 nps 20715927 hashfull 378 tbhits 0 time 43438 pv g3g7 f8g7
info depth 33 currmove g3g7 currmovenumber 1
info depth 33 seldepth 72 multipv 1 score cp 699 lowerbound nodes 910168476 nps 20738908 hashfull 382 tbhits 0 time 43887 pv g3g7
info depth 32 currmove g3g7 currmovenumber 1
info depth 33 seldepth 72 multipv 1 score cp 734 lowerbound nodes 913059730 nps 20748056 hashfull 384 tbhits 0 time 44007 pv g3g7
info depth 31 currmove g3g7 currmovenumber 1
info depth 31 currmove f4h6 currmovenumber 2
info depth 31 currmove h2h3 currmovenumber 3
info depth 31 currmove f4d2 currmovenumber 4
info depth 31 currmove d3b5 currmovenumber 5
info depth 31 currmove h2h4 currmovenumber 6
info depth 31 currmove f4e3 currmovenumber 7
info depth 31 currmove d3f1 currmovenumber 8
info depth 31 currmove h5f3 currmovenumber 9
info depth 31 currmove b1c1 currmovenumber 10
info depth 31 currmove g3f3 currmovenumber 11
info depth 31 currmove b1b3 currmovenumber 12
info depth 31 currmove d3e2 currmovenumber 13
info depth 31 currmove h5g6 currmovenumber 14
info depth 31 currmove c3c4 currmovenumber 15
info depth 31 currmove g1h1 currmovenumber 16
info depth 31 currmove f2f3 currmovenumber 17
info depth 31 currmove h5g5 currmovenumber 18
info depth 31 currmove b1f1 currmovenumber 19
info depth 31 currmove b1a1 currmovenumber 20
info depth 31 currmove g3g5 currmovenumber 21
info depth 31 currmove b1e1 currmovenumber 22
info depth 31 currmove g1f1 currmovenumber 23
info depth 31 currmove h5f5 currmovenumber 24
info depth 31 currmove h5g4 currmovenumber 25
info depth 31 currmove b1b6 currmovenumber 26
info depth 31 currmove d3e4 currmovenumber 27
info depth 31 currmove d3a6 currmovenumber 28
info depth 31 currmove b1d1 currmovenumber 29
info depth 31 currmove d3g6 currmovenumber 30
info depth 31 currmove a2a3 currmovenumber 31
info depth 31 currmove f4g5 currmovenumber 32
info depth 31 currmove a2a4 currmovenumber 33
info depth 31 currmove d3c4 currmovenumber 34
info depth 31 currmove d3c2 currmovenumber 35
info depth 31 currmove g3g4 currmovenumber 36
info depth 31 currmove b1b4 currmovenumber 37
info depth 31 currmove h5h4 currmovenumber 38
info depth 31 currmove h5e2 currmovenumber 39
info depth 31 currmove g3g6 currmovenumber 40
info depth 31 currmove b1b5 currmovenumber 41
info depth 31 currmove g3e3 currmovenumber 42
info depth 31 currmove h5d1 currmovenumber 43
info depth 31 currmove d3f5 currmovenumber 44
info depth 31 currmove f4c1 currmovenumber 45
info depth 31 currmove h5h3 currmovenumber 46
info depth 31 currmove b1b2 currmovenumber 47
info depth 31 currmove g3h3 currmovenumber 48
info depth 31 currmove d3h7 currmovenumber 49
info depth 31 currmove h5h6 currmovenumber 50
info depth 31 currmove h5f7 currmovenumber 51
info depth 31 currmove b1b7 currmovenumber 52
info depth 33 seldepth 72 multipv 1 score cp 763 nodes 923870623 nps 20778414 hashfull 387 tbhits 0 time 44463 pv g3g7 f8g7 f4h6 e6g4 h6g7 h8g7 h5h7 g7f8 h7h6 f8g8 d3h7 g8h8 h7f5 h8g8 h6h7 g8f8 h7h8 f8e7 h8f6 e7f8 f5g4 c7c6 f6h8 f8e7 h8h4 e7f8 g4c8 e8c8 h2h3 f8e8 b1b4 a7a5 b4f4 c6c5 f4f6 c8c6 h4h7 c6f6 e5f6 c5f8 h7f5 f8c5 f5g4 b7b5 g4g8 c5f8 g8f8 e8f8 g1f1 f8g8 f1e2 d5d4 c3d4 b5b4 e2d3 a5a4 d3c2 g8h7 d4d5 h7g6 h3h4
zullil
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: For a change: easy positions for SF, but difficult to SF NN

Post by zullil »

Jouni wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:49 pm
[d]r3r1k1/p3bppp/q1b2n2/5Q2/1p1B4/1BNR4/PPP3PP/2K2R2 w - - 0 1

From Arasan suite. SF NN has almost always +5 evaluation, but not intended move!?
Is this what you mean? I guess Stockfish+nnue simply "knows" that Nd5 very strong, and so it takes longer to find something with an even higher evaluation?

info depth 41 seldepth 62 multipv 1 score cp 478 lowerbound nodes 7018530938 nps 28487303 hashfull 603 tbhits 0 time 246374 pv c3d5
info depth 39 currmove c3d5 currmovenumber 1
info depth 39 currmove d4f6 currmovenumber 2
info depth 39 currmove c3e2 currmovenumber 3
info depth 39 currmove c3d1 currmovenumber 4
info depth 39 currmove g2g4 currmovenumber 5
info depth 39 currmove h2h3 currmovenumber 6
info depth 39 currmove d4c5 currmovenumber 7
info depth 39 currmove f5d5 currmovenumber 8
info depth 39 currmove d4g1 currmovenumber 9
info depth 39 currmove f5a5 currmovenumber 10
info depth 39 currmove a2a4 currmovenumber 11
info depth 39 currmove f5g6 currmovenumber 12
info depth 39 currmove c1d2 currmovenumber 13
info depth 39 currmove g2g3 currmovenumber 14
info depth 39 currmove d3e3 currmovenumber 15
info depth 39 currmove c1b1 currmovenumber 16
info depth 39 currmove c1d1 currmovenumber 17
info depth 39 currmove b3c4 currmovenumber 18
info depth 39 currmove f5e4 currmovenumber 19
info depth 39 currmove d3d1 currmovenumber 20
info depth 39 currmove c3e4 currmovenumber 21
info depth 39 currmove f5b5 currmovenumber 22
info depth 39 currmove h2h4 currmovenumber 23
info depth 39 currmove f1d1 currmovenumber 24
info depth 39 currmove d3d2 currmovenumber 25
info depth 39 currmove b3d5 currmovenumber 26
info depth 39 currmove f1f4 currmovenumber 27
info depth 39 currmove d3g3 currmovenumber 28
info depth 41 seldepth 63 multipv 1 score cp 498 lowerbound nodes 7696694799 nps 28500999 hashfull 646 tbhits 0 time 270050 pv d3g3
info depth 38 currmove d3g3 currmovenumber 1
info depth 41 seldepth 63 multipv 1 score cp 524 lowerbound nodes 7772136399 nps 28497652 hashfull 651 tbhits 0 time 272729 pv d3g3
info depth 37 currmove d3g3 currmovenumber 1
info depth 41 seldepth 63 multipv 1 score cp 560 lowerbound nodes 7835526835 nps 28496762 hashfull 653 tbhits 0 time 274962 pv d3g3
info depth 36 currmove d3g3 currmovenumber 1
info depth 41 seldepth 63 multipv 1 score cp 606 lowerbound nodes 7971190009 nps 28500700 hashfull 660 tbhits 0 time 279684 pv d3g3
info depth 35 currmove d3g3 currmovenumber 1
info depth 41 seldepth 63 multipv 1 score cp 667 lowerbound nodes 8055556336 nps 28494465 hashfull 663 tbhits 0 time 282706 pv d3g3
info depth 34 currmove d3g3 currmovenumber 1
info depth 41 seldepth 63 multipv 1 score cp 745 lowerbound nodes 8381672168 nps 28466776 hashfull 688 tbhits 0 time 294437 pv d3g3
info depth 33 currmove d3g3 currmovenumber 1
info depth 41 seldepth 63 multipv 1 score cp 845 lowerbound nodes 8788770983 nps 28431491 hashfull 710 tbhits 0 time 309121 pv d3g3
info depth 32 currmove d3g3 currmovenumber 1
info depth 32 currmove d4f6 currmovenumber 2
info depth 32 currmove c3d5 currmovenumber 3
info depth 32 currmove c3d1 currmovenumber 4
info depth 32 currmove c3e2 currmovenumber 5
info depth 32 currmove f1d1 currmovenumber 6
info depth 32 currmove c1b1 currmovenumber 7
info depth 32 currmove a2a3 currmovenumber 8
info depth 32 currmove f5h5 currmovenumber 9
info depth 32 currmove c3e4 currmovenumber 10
info depth 32 currmove f5e5 currmovenumber 11
info depth 32 currmove c1d2 currmovenumber 12
info depth 32 currmove d3d1 currmovenumber 13
info depth 32 currmove f5f2 currmovenumber 14
info depth 32 currmove f5f4 currmovenumber 15
info depth 32 currmove d3e3 currmovenumber 16
info depth 32 currmove c1d1 currmovenumber 17
info depth 32 currmove d4e5 currmovenumber 18
info depth 32 currmove f5c5 currmovenumber 19
info depth 32 currmove f5h3 currmovenumber 20
info depth 32 currmove f5g6 currmovenumber 21
info depth 32 currmove f5e6 currmovenumber 22
info depth 32 currmove f1g1 currmovenumber 23
info depth 32 currmove f5g5 currmovenumber 24
info depth 32 currmove d4f2 currmovenumber 25
info depth 32 currmove f5e4 currmovenumber 26
info depth 32 currmove f5a5 currmovenumber 27
info depth 32 currmove a2a4 currmovenumber 28
info depth 32 currmove c3b1 currmovenumber 29
info depth 32 currmove f1f4 currmovenumber 30
info depth 32 currmove f1e1 currmovenumber 31
info depth 32 currmove f5f3 currmovenumber 32
info depth 32 currmove f5d5 currmovenumber 33
info depth 32 currmove d4b6 currmovenumber 34
info depth 32 currmove d4g1 currmovenumber 35
info depth 32 currmove f1h1 currmovenumber 36
info depth 32 currmove d4e3 currmovenumber 37
info depth 32 currmove h2h3 currmovenumber 38
info depth 32 currmove f5d7 currmovenumber 39
info depth 32 currmove b3c4 currmovenumber 40
info depth 32 currmove b3e6 currmovenumber 41
info depth 32 currmove f1f3 currmovenumber 42
info depth 32 currmove h2h4 currmovenumber 43
info depth 32 currmove f5b5 currmovenumber 44
info depth 32 currmove f5c8 currmovenumber 45
info depth 32 currmove g2g4 currmovenumber 46
info depth 32 currmove g2g3 currmovenumber 47
info depth 32 currmove b3a4 currmovenumber 48
info depth 32 currmove d3f3 currmovenumber 49
info depth 32 currmove c3b5 currmovenumber 50
info depth 32 currmove f5g4 currmovenumber 51
info depth 32 currmove f1f2 currmovenumber 52
info depth 32 currmove d4c5 currmovenumber 53
info depth 32 currmove b3d5 currmovenumber 54
info depth 32 currmove d3h3 currmovenumber 55
info depth 32 currmove c3a4 currmovenumber 56
info depth 32 currmove d3d2 currmovenumber 57
info depth 32 currmove f5f6 currmovenumber 58
info depth 32 currmove f5h7 currmovenumber 59
info depth 32 currmove b3f7 currmovenumber 60
info depth 32 currmove d4a7 currmovenumber 61
info depth 41 seldepth 72 multipv 1 score cp 866 nodes 8980983064 nps 28433339 hashfull 723 tbhits 0 time 315861 pv d3g3 c6f3 c3b5 a8b8 f5f3 b8b5 b3c4 g7g6 d4f6 e7f6 f3f6 a6f6 f1f6 b5b7 g3f3 e8e7 f6d6 g8g7 b2b3 e7e1 d6d1 e1e7 c1d2 e7e5 f3d3 e5h5 h2h3 h5c5 d2c1 c5c7 h3h4 f7f5 c1d2 g7h6 d1e1 c7g7 e1e2 b7c7 e2e6 c7d7 d3d7 g7d7 d2e2 d7d4 c4d3 d4g4 e2f3 g4h4
Albert Silver
Posts: 3019
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:57 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Re: For a change: easy positions for SF, but difficult to SF NN

Post by Albert Silver »

zullil wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:56 pm
Jouni wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:49 pm
[d]r3r1k1/p3bppp/q1b2n2/5Q2/1p1B4/1BNR4/PPP3PP/2K2R2 w - - 0 1

From Arasan suite. SF NN has almost always +5 evaluation, but not intended move!?
Is this what you mean? I guess Stockfish+nnue simply "knows" that Nd5 very strong, and so it takes longer to find something with an even higher evaluation?

info depth 41 seldepth 62 multipv 1 score cp 478 lowerbound nodes 7018530938 nps 28487303 hashfull 603 tbhits 0 time 246374 pv c3d5
info depth 39 currmove c3d5 currmovenumber 1
info depth 39 currmove d3g3 currmovenumber 28
info depth 41 seldepth 63 multipv 1 score cp 498 lowerbound nodes 7696694799 nps 28500999 hashfull 646 tbhits 0 time 270050 pv d3g3
info depth 38 currmove d3g3 currmovenumber 1
info depth 41 seldepth 72 multipv 1 score cp 866 nodes 8980983064 nps 28433339 hashfull 723 tbhits 0 time 315861 pv d3g3 c6f3 c3b5 a8b8 f5f3 b8b5 b3c4 g7g6 d4f6 e7f6 f3f6 a6f6 f1f6 b5b7 g3f3 e8e7 f6d6 g8g7 b2b3 e7e1 d6d1 e1e7 c1d2 e7e5 f3d3 e5h5 h2h3 h5c5 d2c1 c5c7 h3h4 f7f5 c1d2 g7h6 d1e1 c7g7 e1e2 b7c7 e2e6 c7d7 d3d7 g7d7 d2e2 d7d4 c4d3 d4g4 e2f3 g4h4
It will also depend on which net is used. Saying NNUE without specification makes it sound like all will have similar results.

From my laptop:

1.Nd5 Bxd5 2.Bxd5 Rad8 3.Bb3 Rd6 4.g4 h6 5.h4 Red8 6.Rfd1 Qc6 7.g5 hxg5 8.Qxg5 Qe4 9.Rg1 Qh7 10.Be5 Rxd3 11.cxd3 Rd7 12.Bxf6 Bxf6 13.Qxf6
White is clearly better: +- (1.76) Depth: 20/38 00:00:02 3484kN
1.Rg3
White is clearly better: +- (2.27 ++) Depth: 21/38 00:00:03 5234kN, tb=4
1.Rg3
White has a decisive advantage: +- (2.54 ++) Depth: 21/38 00:00:03 5339kN, tb=4
1.Rg3
White has a decisive advantage: +- (2.89 ++) Depth: 21/38 00:00:03 5687kN, tb=4
1.Rg3 Bd7 2.Rxg7+ Kxg7 3.Qg5+ Kf8 4.Rf3 Bg4 5.Rf4 Bd6 6.Qh6+ Ke7 7.Qxf6+ Kd7 8.Rxg4 Re1+ 9.Nd1 Rf8 10.Qf3 Qe2 11.Qxe2 Rxe2 12.Ba4+ Ke6
White has a decisive advantage: +- (2.89) Depth: 21/38 00:00:03 5724kN, tb=4

(...)

1.Rg3 Bd7 2.Rxg7+ Kxg7 3.Qg5+ Kf8 4.Rf3 Bg4 5.Rf4 Bd6 6.Qh6+ Ke7 7.Qxf6+ Kd7 8.Ba4+ Qxa4 9.Nxa4 Re1+ 10.Kd2 Rd1+ 11.Ke3 Re8+ 12.Kf2 Rd2+ 13.Kg3 Be6 14.Nc5+ Kc6 15.Nxe6 Rxe6 16.Qxf7 Ree2 17.Qc4+ Kd7 18.Kh3 Bxf4 19.Qf7+ Kc6 20.Qxf4 Rxc2 21.Qf3+ Kd6 22.Kg3 Rcd2 23.Be3 Rxb2 24.Qf4+ Kd5 25.Kf3 Ke6 26.Qe4+ Kd6 27.Bf4+ Kc5
White is clearly winning: +- (5.41 ++) Depth: 27/60 00:00:27 49823kN, tb=22
"Tactics are the bricks and sticks that make up a game, but positional play is the architectural blueprint."
zullil
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: For a change: easy positions for SF, but difficult to SF NN

Post by zullil »

Albert Silver wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:12 pm
zullil wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:56 pm
Jouni wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:49 pm
[d]r3r1k1/p3bppp/q1b2n2/5Q2/1p1B4/1BNR4/PPP3PP/2K2R2 w - - 0 1

From Arasan suite. SF NN has almost always +5 evaluation, but not intended move!?
Is this what you mean? I guess Stockfish+nnue simply "knows" that Nd5 very strong, and so it takes longer to find something with an even higher evaluation?

info depth 41 seldepth 62 multipv 1 score cp 478 lowerbound nodes 7018530938 nps 28487303 hashfull 603 tbhits 0 time 246374 pv c3d5
info depth 39 currmove c3d5 currmovenumber 1
info depth 39 currmove d3g3 currmovenumber 28
info depth 41 seldepth 63 multipv 1 score cp 498 lowerbound nodes 7696694799 nps 28500999 hashfull 646 tbhits 0 time 270050 pv d3g3
info depth 38 currmove d3g3 currmovenumber 1
info depth 41 seldepth 72 multipv 1 score cp 866 nodes 8980983064 nps 28433339 hashfull 723 tbhits 0 time 315861 pv d3g3 c6f3 c3b5 a8b8 f5f3 b8b5 b3c4 g7g6 d4f6 e7f6 f3f6 a6f6 f1f6 b5b7 g3f3 e8e7 f6d6 g8g7 b2b3 e7e1 d6d1 e1e7 c1d2 e7e5 f3d3 e5h5 h2h3 h5c5 d2c1 c5c7 h3h4 f7f5 c1d2 g7h6 d1e1 c7g7 e1e2 b7c7 e2e6 c7d7 d3d7 g7d7 d2e2 d7d4 c4d3 d4g4 e2f3 g4h4
It will also depend on which net is used. Saying NNUE without specification makes it sound like all will have similar results.

From my laptop:

1.Nd5 Bxd5 2.Bxd5 Rad8 3.Bb3 Rd6 4.g4 h6 5.h4 Red8 6.Rfd1 Qc6 7.g5 hxg5 8.Qxg5 Qe4 9.Rg1 Qh7 10.Be5 Rxd3 11.cxd3 Rd7 12.Bxf6 Bxf6 13.Qxf6
White is clearly better: +- (1.76) Depth: 20/38 00:00:02 3484kN
1.Rg3
White is clearly better: +- (2.27 ++) Depth: 21/38 00:00:03 5234kN, tb=4
1.Rg3
White has a decisive advantage: +- (2.54 ++) Depth: 21/38 00:00:03 5339kN, tb=4
1.Rg3
White has a decisive advantage: +- (2.89 ++) Depth: 21/38 00:00:03 5687kN, tb=4
1.Rg3 Bd7 2.Rxg7+ Kxg7 3.Qg5+ Kf8 4.Rf3 Bg4 5.Rf4 Bd6 6.Qh6+ Ke7 7.Qxf6+ Kd7 8.Rxg4 Re1+ 9.Nd1 Rf8 10.Qf3 Qe2 11.Qxe2 Rxe2 12.Ba4+ Ke6
White has a decisive advantage: +- (2.89) Depth: 21/38 00:00:03 5724kN, tb=4

(...)

1.Rg3 Bd7 2.Rxg7+ Kxg7 3.Qg5+ Kf8 4.Rf3 Bg4 5.Rf4 Bd6 6.Qh6+ Ke7 7.Qxf6+ Kd7 8.Ba4+ Qxa4 9.Nxa4 Re1+ 10.Kd2 Rd1+ 11.Ke3 Re8+ 12.Kf2 Rd2+ 13.Kg3 Be6 14.Nc5+ Kc6 15.Nxe6 Rxe6 16.Qxf7 Ree2 17.Qc4+ Kd7 18.Kh3 Bxf4 19.Qf7+ Kc6 20.Qxf4 Rxc2 21.Qf3+ Kd6 22.Kg3 Rcd2 23.Be3 Rxb2 24.Qf4+ Kd5 25.Kf3 Ke6 26.Qe4+ Kd6 27.Bf4+ Kc5
White is clearly winning: +- (5.41 ++) Depth: 27/60 00:00:27 49823kN, tb=22
Right. So which net did you use? :wink:

Mine was sv20200801-1515.bin.
Albert Silver
Posts: 3019
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:57 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Re: For a change: easy positions for SF, but difficult to SF NN

Post by Albert Silver »

zullil wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:23 pm
Albert Silver wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:12 pm
It will also depend on which net is used. Saying NNUE without specification makes it sound like all will have similar results.

From my laptop:

1.Nd5 Bxd5 2.Bxd5 Rad8 3.Bb3 Rd6 4.g4 h6 5.h4 Red8 6.Rfd1 Qc6 7.g5 hxg5 8.Qxg5 Qe4 9.Rg1 Qh7 10.Be5 Rxd3 11.cxd3 Rd7 12.Bxf6 Bxf6 13.Qxf6
White is clearly better: +- (1.76) Depth: 20/38 00:00:02 3484kN
1.Rg3
White is clearly better: +- (2.27 ++) Depth: 21/38 00:00:03 5234kN, tb=4
1.Rg3
White has a decisive advantage: +- (2.54 ++) Depth: 21/38 00:00:03 5339kN, tb=4
1.Rg3
White has a decisive advantage: +- (2.89 ++) Depth: 21/38 00:00:03 5687kN, tb=4
1.Rg3 Bd7 2.Rxg7+ Kxg7 3.Qg5+ Kf8 4.Rf3 Bg4 5.Rf4 Bd6 6.Qh6+ Ke7 7.Qxf6+ Kd7 8.Rxg4 Re1+ 9.Nd1 Rf8 10.Qf3 Qe2 11.Qxe2 Rxe2 12.Ba4+ Ke6
White has a decisive advantage: +- (2.89) Depth: 21/38 00:00:03 5724kN, tb=4

(...)

1.Rg3 Bd7 2.Rxg7+ Kxg7 3.Qg5+ Kf8 4.Rf3 Bg4 5.Rf4 Bd6 6.Qh6+ Ke7 7.Qxf6+ Kd7 8.Ba4+ Qxa4 9.Nxa4 Re1+ 10.Kd2 Rd1+ 11.Ke3 Re8+ 12.Kf2 Rd2+ 13.Kg3 Be6 14.Nc5+ Kc6 15.Nxe6 Rxe6 16.Qxf7 Ree2 17.Qc4+ Kd7 18.Kh3 Bxf4 19.Qf7+ Kc6 20.Qxf4 Rxc2 21.Qf3+ Kd6 22.Kg3 Rcd2 23.Be3 Rxb2 24.Qf4+ Kd5 25.Kf3 Ke6 26.Qe4+ Kd6 27.Bf4+ Kc5
White is clearly winning: +- (5.41 ++) Depth: 27/60 00:00:27 49823kN, tb=22
Right. So which net did you use? :wink:

Mine was sv20200801-1515.bin.
A personal development net I made while experimenting with NNUE.
"Tactics are the bricks and sticks that make up a game, but positional play is the architectural blueprint."
Albert Silver
Posts: 3019
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:57 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Re: For a change: easy positions for SF, but difficult to SF NN

Post by Albert Silver »

Jouni wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:49 pm
[d]7q/3k2p1/n1p1p1Pr/1pPpPpQ1/3P1N1p/1P2KP2/6P1/7R w - - 0 1
This has dual winning solutions. Nxd5 and g3.
"Tactics are the bricks and sticks that make up a game, but positional play is the architectural blueprint."