Both 8 GB RAM and all 3-6 piece Syzygybases.
The 20 possible opening moves = 40 games.
LC0 vs Stockfish with only 3 cores (5000 kn/s):
Contempt +25
+17 =20 -3
Winning percentage = 67.5%
=127 elo difference
Contempt -25
+9 =30 -1
Winning percentage = 60%
=70 elo difference
Contempt -50
+10 =27 -3
Winning percentage = 58.75%
=61 elo difference
Contempt -75
+6 =34 -0
Winning percentage = 57.5%
=53 elo difference -> with 3 cores vs 2x RTX 2080 Ti
Doubling cpu cores from 3 to 6 cores should give Stockfish with contempt -75 easily an 53 elo improvement, which means the elo difference is 0.
I don't know how good the elo scaling of Stockfish is with a few cores, but I expect it to be much better than with many cores.
Contempt -75 instead of +25 leads to a 75 elo improvement.
Comparing Stockfish lost only 3 wins using contempt -75 but LC0 lost 11 wins. That means LC0 lost nearly 4x more of his wins than Stockfish.
It would be interesting to test Stockfish up to contempt -200 and learn more about the new playing style/improvements.
And also to have the option to display always contempt 0 in the evaluation, while using contempt -75, would be interesting.
Feel free to do lots of your own different contempt tests.
Stockfish could have won the TCEC easily.
LC0 30x384 (3350) + 2x RTX 2080 Ti vs Stockfish Dev 22.04.2020 + 6 cores + Contempt -75 should be a fair play/ratio
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Re: LC0 30x384 (3350) + 2x RTX 2080 Ti vs Stockfish Dev 22.04.2020 + 6 cores + Contempt -75 should be a fair play/ratio
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, but what you're saying is:
- You have a setup in which SF is clearly weaker than its opponent
- In this setup, negative contempt yields better match results than positive contempt
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Re: LC0 30x384 (3350) + 2x RTX 2080 Ti vs Stockfish Dev 22.04.2020 + 6 cores + Contempt -75 should be a fair play/ratio
I think SF benefits from low contempt against Leela even if hardware differences cause SF to be stronger.Branko Radovanovic wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:24 am Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, but what you're saying is:But this is precisely what lowering contempt is supposed to do in this situation. On the other hand, if you added enough cores to make SF stronger than LC0, then the setting of -75 would actually become detrimental: what helps you when you are weaker, hurts you when you are stronger.
- You have a setup in which SF is clearly weaker than its opponent
- In this setup, negative contempt yields better match results than positive contempt
Low contempt "forces" SF to trade much sooner which in turn will cause the game to be tactical at a much earlier state too.
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Re: LC0 30x384 (3350) + 2x RTX 2080 Ti vs Stockfish Dev 22.04.2020 + 6 cores + Contempt -75 should be a fair play/ratio
Some notes:
1,40 games are too few to measure Elo.
2,Basically the contempt has effect on the style of an engine and it has smaller effect on Elo.
3,The chess power of Leela strongly depends on the used net and the parameters of Leela together with move time.
4,In general against a dual RTX 2080 Ti even 16 cores is few for Stockfish to get equal challenge.
1,40 games are too few to measure Elo.
2,Basically the contempt has effect on the style of an engine and it has smaller effect on Elo.
3,The chess power of Leela strongly depends on the used net and the parameters of Leela together with move time.
4,In general against a dual RTX 2080 Ti even 16 cores is few for Stockfish to get equal challenge.
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Re: LC0 30x384 (3350) + 2x RTX 2080 Ti vs Stockfish Dev 22.04.2020 + 6 cores + Contempt -75 should be a fair play/ratio
Why on earth did you limit SF to 3 cores?? As pointed out by everyone, it can only be surmised that negative contempt is implemented very well. The strength difference is massive. As for SF winning TCEC with such settings...you can’t win if you don’t...win.
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Re: LC0 30x384 (3350) + 2x RTX 2080 Ti vs Stockfish Dev 22.04.2020 + 6 cores + Contempt -75 should be a fair play/ratio
Its worth a try. Its good to experiment.
Advanced Micro Devices fan.
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Re: LC0 30x384 (3350) + 2x RTX 2080 Ti vs Stockfish Dev 22.04.2020 + 6 cores + Contempt -75 should be a fair play/ratio
He might only have a quad core or he was proving a point on how decent a weak hardware setup can play against a powerful LCO.yanquis1972 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:18 pm Why on earth did you limit SF to 3 cores?? As pointed out by everyone, it can only be surmised that negative contempt is implemented very well. The strength difference is massive. As for SF winning TCEC with such settings...you can’t win if you don’t...win.
Advanced Micro Devices fan.
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Re: LC0 30x384 (3350) + 2x RTX 2080 Ti vs Stockfish Dev 22.04.2020 + 6 cores + Contempt -75 should be a fair play/ratio
Sounds much better.
Can you write in on Github please. https://github.com/LeelaChessZero/lc0/issues