Laskos wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:57 pm
I don't know, I still seem to trust more Leela than even Larry. I have zero opening theory knowledge, but I am a bit skeptical when people come with some esoteric to me knowledge, while in the openings Leela already at 1 node is positionally probably GM level. Sorry, I think I will stick with my simplistic approach using Leela with the best available net at long analyses.
I went through proposed by Leela line ply by ply to 100 million nodes each ply, and remarkably e4 line was followed all the way to the 8 moves I showed in the diagram in the first post. The same thing, remarkably, happened with the d4 line, this time to 6 moves.
The positions in diagrams do occur in many recent games of top GMs. I let analyze these e4 and d4 lines at the endposition for more than 100 million nodes each. The net is the best JHorthos bignet. Crucially, these trends are hardly visible at say 10 million nodes, the scores stabilize after more than 50-100 million nodes.
Here is the e4 line analyzed after 8 moves, previously checked ply by ply 8-mover, now analyzed to 100+ million nodes:
info depth 27 seldepth 72 time 6867298 nodes 123995548 score cp 5471
00 nps 18055 tbhits 0 multipv 1 pv b1c3 d8e8 h2h3 h7h5 c1f4 f8b4 c3e2 c8e6 e2d4
f5d4 f3d4 e6d5 a1c1 a8d8 f1d1 b4e7 c2c4 d5e4 f2f3 e7c5 f4e3 e4g6 g2g4 h5g4 h3g4
f7f6 e5f6 g7f6 g1g2 e8f7 d4f5 d8d1 c1d1 g6f5 e3c5 f5e6 g2g3 h8g8 g3f4 a7a5 a2a4
g8e8 d1h1 f7g6 h1e1 e6f7 e1e8 f7e8 c5e7 e8f7 b2b3 b7b5 b3b4 a5b4 a4a5 b4b3 e7a3
f7c4 a5a6 c6c5
Here is the d4 line analyzed after 6 moves, previously checked ply by ply 6-mover, now analyzed to 100+ million nodes:
info depth 25 seldepth 73 time 12398405 nodes 140132643 score cp 5306
000 nps 11302 tbhits 0 multipv 1 pv d1c2 b8d7 e1g1 c7c6 d2f4 b7b6 b1d2 f6h5 e2e3
c8a6 f1c1 a6b7 c4d5 e6d5 h2h4 c6c5 d2b1 h5f4 e3f4 c5d4 f3d4 a8c8 b1c3 d7f6 c1d1
f8e8 a2a3 g7g6 d1d2 e7c5 a1d1 d8e7 c2b3 f6e4 d2e2 e7f6 c3d5 b7d5 b3d5
e4 best line performs 50% better than d4 best line.
These are not weird openings.
With e4 line, if it so bad an opening for Black, why very recently it was played as Black by super GMs from Nakamura to Carlsen, Topalov, Karjakin, Anand, etc.? It is a pretty common opening for top GMs, both as White and Black.
With d4 line, if it so bad an opening for White, why very recently it was played as White by super GMs from Nakamura to Carlsen, Kramnik, Gelfand, Aronian, etc.? It is not an uncommon opening for top GMs, both as White and Black.
I know nothing of opening theory, and sorry, I sort of love Leela in the openings, I am very biased trusting it