Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.
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Paloma
Posts: 1167Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:07 pmFull name: Herbert L
Post by Paloma Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:30 am
Is Bd4 stronger than Rd6 ?
Is this not a Transposition?
Analysis by Stockfish 250719 64 BMI2:
1. +- (2.96):
1.Bd4 Bxd4 2.Rxd4 Rd8 3.Rxd8 Qxd8 4.Qe6 Nd7 5.Rd1 Nf8 6.Rxd8 Nxe6 7.Rxa8 bxc4 8.Rxa7+ Kf6 9.Ra4 c3 10.Rc4 c5 11.Rxc3 Ke5 12.Rc4 Kd5 13.Rg4 Ke5 14.Kf1 Kf6 15.Ra4 Ke5 16.Rc4 Kd5 17.Rg4 Ke5 18.Ke2 Nd4+ 19.Kd3 Kf5 20.Re4 Nf3 21.Re7 Ne5+ 22.Ke3 Ng4+ 23.Ke2 Ne5 24.Rc7 c4 25.Ke3 Ng4+ 26.Kd4 Kf6 27.Rc8 Kg7 28.f3 Nh2 29.Ke3 g4 30.Rxc4 Nxf3 31.Kf4 Kh6 32.Rc5 Nd4 33.Kxg4 Kg7 34.Rc4 Nf5 35.Kf4 Nd6 36.Rc6 Nf7 37.Ra6 Kh6 38.Ra5 Kg7 39.Ra7
2. +- (2.96): 1.Rd6 Be5
2.Bd4 Bxd4 3.Rxd4 Rd8 4.Rxd8 Qxd8 5.Qe6 Nd7 6.Rd1 Nf8 7.Rxd8 Nxe6 8.Rxa8 bxc4 9.Rxa7+ Kf6 10.Ra4 c3 11.Rc4 c5 12.Rxc3 Ke5 13.Rc4 Kd5 14.Rg4 Ke5 15.Kf1 Kf6 16.Ra4 Ke5 17.Rc4 Kd5 18.Rg4 Ke5 19.Ke2 Nd4+ 20.Kd3 Kf5 21.Re4 Nf3 22.Re7 Ne5+ 23.Ke3 Ng4+ 24.Ke2 Ne5 25.Rc7 c4 26.Ke3 Ng4+ 27.Kd4 Kf6 28.Rc8 Kg7 29.f3 Nh2 30.Ke3 g4 31.Rxc4 Nxf3 32.Kf4 Kh6 33.Rc5 Nd4 34.Ra5 Nc6 35.Rg5 Nd4 36.Kxg4 Kg7 37.Rc5 Kf7 38.Ra5 Kf6 39.Ra8 Ke5 40.Ra6 Ne6
3. = (0.00): 1.Qh6+ Kf7 2.Bxg5 Qg7 3.Qh4 Re5 4.Bxf6 Qxf6 5.Qh3 Rf5 6.Rhe1 Na6 7.Rd7+ Kg8 8.Qh7+ Kf8 9.Qh6+ Kg8 10.Rde7 Nc7 11.Qh7+ Kf8 12.Rxc7 Rxf2+ 13.Kg1 Rf3 14.Qh6+ Kg8 15.Qh7+
Depth 54/110, i7 6700 3core @3.7GHz, 8192 MB Hash
Dann Corbit
Posts: 12537Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pmLocation: Redmond, WA USA
Post by Dann Corbit Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:07 am
Not clear to me that either move wins. I analyzed the position after both key moves were made and then the key position.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
zullil
Posts: 6442Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 amLocation: PA USAFull name: Louis Zulli
Post by zullil Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:41 am
zullil wrote: ↑ Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:11 am Vinvin wrote: ↑ Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:49 pm Vinvin wrote: ↑ Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:58 pm
8 positions
I still consider unclear , I have to spend some hours to debug them : numbers 36, 78, 83, 113, 139, 146, 179, 214 in the initial list
I ask help to forumers with big machine: please run this 8 positions, 3 best moves, around 200 billions nodes search (around 3 hours at 20 millions nodes/sec) and post the log here.
Code: Select all
2k5/2p5/1q1p4/pPpPp1pp/N1P1Pp2/P4PbP/KQ4P1/8 w - - am Nxb6+?; c1 "diff=10";
4r1k1/2pbnrq1/1p1b1p2/2pPp1pp/p1P1P2P/P2QNNB1/1P3PP1/3RR2K b - - bm Nc8 g4; id "Stockfish8 - AlphaZero";
5bk1/1b1rq2p/2p1p1p1/1pP1P3/1Pp1B2Q/2B3P1/5PK1/7R w - - bm Qg4; id "AlphaZero - Stockfish8";
8/1p2b3/6k1/5p2/p2NbP1p/P1B1P1p1/1P5P/6K1 w - - bm h3; c0 "fortress From Smirin-HIARCS"; c1 "diff=10";
b3r3/q2B2k1/3Q2p1/1p5p/3pP3/5P2/1p4PP/5RK1 b - - bm d3+; c1 "diff=6";
q1r5/k3ppp1/2R5/PP1KP2r/2p4Q/2p1p3/5pP1/3R4 w - - id ?; bm Qd4+;
r2br1k1/1b3q1p/pp1p1ppB/3Nn3/n1PNP2R/4Q3/1P2B1PP/5R1K w - - bm Nf5;
rn2r1q1/p5k1/2p2bp1/1p4p1/2P5/4B1PQ/5PK1/3R3R w - - bm Bd4;
Is 1...d3+ stronger than 1...Rf8 ? Is it winning or draw ?
b3r3/q2B2k1/3Q2p1/1p5p/3pP3/5P2/1p4PP/5RK1 b - - bm d3+; c1 "diff=6";
[d]b3r3/q2B2k1/3Q2p1/1p5p/3pP3/5P2/1p4PP/5RK1 b - -
Hard to believe that d3+ is best:
-5.51 1... Rf8 2. Be6 Rf6 3. Rb1 d3+ 4. Kh1 h4 5. h3 Qf7 6. Qxd3 Qxe6 7. Qc3 Bc6 8. Qxb2 Kg8 9. Qd4 Qd6 10. Qf2 Qf4 11. Qa7 Re6 12. Rd1 Qf6 13. Kg1 Be8 14. Qa8 Qe7 15. Qb8 Qc5+ 16. Kh1 Qe5 17. Rd8 Kf7 18. Qa7+ Re7 19. Qe3 Kg7 20. Rd1 Rc7 21. Rb1 Rc4 22. Qa3 Ra4 23. Qc1 g5 24. Qc8 Rc4 25. Qb7+ Rc7 26. Qd5 Qxd5 27. exd5 Rc2 28. Kg1 Kf7 29. Rb4 Bd7 30. Re4 Rc4 31. Kf2 Rxe4 32. fxe4 Kf6 33. d6 b4 34. Ke3 Ke5 (depth 50, 0:18:41)
-2.96 1... d3+ 2. Kh1 Qf2 3. Rd1 d2 4. h3 Qe1+ 5. Kh2 Rf8 6. Bf5 gxf5 7. Rxd2 Qh4 8. Rxb2 fxe4 9. fxe4 Qg5 10. Qd7+ Rf7 11. Qxb5 Qf4+ 12. g3 Qxe4 13. Qg5+ Qg6 14. Rb5 Bf3 15. Kg1 Bc6 16. Rc5 Be8 17. Qe5+ Rf6 18. Qg5 Qxg5 19. Rxg5+ Bg6 20. Kg2 Rf7 21. Re5 Kf6 22. Ra5 Be4+ 23. Kg1 Kg6 24. Re5 Bb7 25. g4 h4 26. Rh5 Rh7 27. Rf5 Be4 28. Re5 Bf3 29. Rf5 Bb7 30. Rc5 Kf7 31. Kf2 Kg7 32. Rg5+ Kf6 33. Rb5 Bc6 34. Rc5 Bd7 35. Ke3 Be8 36. Kf4 Kg6 37. Rg5+ Kh6 38. Re5 Rf7+ 39. Ke3 Rf8 40. Re6+ Bg6 41. Ra6 Re8+ 42. Kf4 Re4+ 43. Kf3 Rc4 44. Ra5 Rc1 45. Ra6 Rf1+ 46. Ke3 Rf8 47. Ra5 Re8+ 48. Kf4 Rd8 49. Kf3 Rd2 50. Kf4 Rb2 51. Ra7 Rb3 52. Ra5 Rb4+ 53. Ke3 Re4+ 54. Kf3 Rc4 55. Ke3 Rb4 56. Ra6 Kg5 57. Ra5+ Kf6 58. g5+ Kf7 59. Ra7+ Kg8 (depth 50, 0:18:41)
-6.58 1... Rf8 2. Be6 Rf6 3. Rb1 d3+ 4. Kh1 h4 5. h3 Qf7 6. Qxd3 Qxe6 7. Qc3 Bc6 8. Qxb2 Kg8 9. Qd4 Qd6 10. Qa7 Be8 11. Qf2 Qf4 12. Qa2+ Kh7 13. Qa7+ Rf7 14. Qa8 Qe5 15. Qd8 Re7 16. Rf1 g5 17. Qb6 Kg7 18. Rc1 Rd7 19. Qa5 Rd3 20. Qa7+ Bf7 21. Qa5 Rd6 22. Rb1 Rc6 23. Qb4 Kg6 24. Qb2 Qxb2 25. Rxb2 Be8 26. Kg1 Kf7 27. Kf2 Rc3 28. Kg1 Kf6 29. Kf2 Ke5 30. Ke2 Bd7 31. Kd1 Ra3 32. Kd2 Kf4 33. Rc2 Be6 34. Rc6 Bc4 35. Rf6+ Ke5 36. Rf8 Be6 37. Kc2 Ra2+ 38. Kc3 Rxg2 39. Rb8 Rf2 40. Rxb5+ Kf4 (depth 59, 2:48:08)
-3.06 1... d3+ 2. Kh1 Qf2 3. Rd1 d2 4. h3 Qe1+ 5. Kh2 Rf8 6. Bf5 gxf5 7. Rxd2 Qh4 8. Rxb2 fxe4 9. fxe4 Qg5 10. Qd7+ Rf7 11. Qxb5 Qf4+ 12. g3 Qxe4 13. Qg5+ Qg6 14. Rb5 Bf3 15. Kg1 Bc6 16. Rc5 Be8 17. Qe5+ Rf6 18. Qg5 Qxg5 19. Rxg5+ Bg6 20. Kg2 Rf7 21. Ra5 Be4+ 22. Kg1 Kg6 23. g4 h4 24. Rh5 Rh7 25. Re5 Bb7 26. Rf5 Re7 27. Rh5 Ba6 28. Kf2 Rh7 29. Rc5 Rf7+ 30. Kg1 Bd3 31. Rh5 Rb7 32. Kg2 Be4+ 33. Kg1 Rb3 34. Rxh4 Kg5 35. Rh8 Kf4 36. Rc8 Rg3+ 37. Kf2 Rg2+ 38. Kf1 Rd2 39. h4 Ke3 40. Rc3+ Bd3+ 41. Kg1 Kf3 42. Ra3 Kg3 43. Ra1 Rg2+ 44. Kh1 Rc2 (depth 59, 2:48:08)
Vinvin
Posts: 5228Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:40 amFull name: Vincent Lejeune
Post by Vinvin Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:28 am
Paloma wrote: ↑ Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:30 am Is Bd4 stronger than Rd6 ?
Is this not a Transposition?
Analysis by Stockfish 250719 64 BMI2:
1. +- (2.96):
1.Bd4 Bxd4 2.Rxd4 Rd8 3.Rxd8 Qxd8 4.Qe6 Nd7 5.Rd1 Nf8 6.Rxd8 Nxe6 7.Rxa8 bxc4 8.Rxa7+ Kf6 9.Ra4 c3 10.Rc4 c5 11.Rxc3 Ke5 12.Rc4 Kd5 13.Rg4 Ke5 14.Kf1 Kf6 15.Ra4 Ke5 16.Rc4 Kd5 17.Rg4 Ke5 18.Ke2 Nd4+ 19.Kd3 Kf5 20.Re4 Nf3 21.Re7 Ne5+ 22.Ke3 Ng4+ 23.Ke2 Ne5 24.Rc7 c4 25.Ke3 Ng4+ 26.Kd4 Kf6 27.Rc8 Kg7 28.f3 Nh2 29.Ke3 g4 30.Rxc4 Nxf3 31.Kf4 Kh6 32.Rc5 Nd4 33.Kxg4 Kg7 34.Rc4 Nf5 35.Kf4 Nd6 36.Rc6 Nf7 37.Ra6 Kh6 38.Ra5 Kg7 39.Ra7
2. +- (2.96): 1.Rd6 Be5
2.Bd4 Bxd4 3.Rxd4 Rd8 4.Rxd8 Qxd8 5.Qe6 Nd7 6.Rd1 Nf8 7.Rxd8 Nxe6 8.Rxa8 bxc4 9.Rxa7+ Kf6 10.Ra4 c3 11.Rc4 c5 12.Rxc3 Ke5 13.Rc4 Kd5 14.Rg4 Ke5 15.Kf1 Kf6 16.Ra4 Ke5 17.Rc4 Kd5 18.Rg4 Ke5 19.Ke2 Nd4+ 20.Kd3 Kf5 21.Re4 Nf3 22.Re7 Ne5+ 23.Ke3 Ng4+ 24.Ke2 Ne5 25.Rc7 c4 26.Ke3 Ng4+ 27.Kd4 Kf6 28.Rc8 Kg7 29.f3 Nh2 30.Ke3 g4 31.Rxc4 Nxf3 32.Kf4 Kh6 33.Rc5 Nd4 34.Ra5 Nc6 35.Rg5 Nd4 36.Kxg4 Kg7 37.Rc5 Kf7 38.Ra5 Kf6 39.Ra8 Ke5 40.Ra6 Ne6
...
Depth 54/110, i7 6700 3core @3.7GHz, 8192 MB Hash
Yes, same conclusion from me 1.Bd4 and 1.Rd6 are transpositions. And Rd6 is not so hard to find.
I'll take this one out.
Thanks for your help !
Vinvin
Posts: 5228Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:40 amFull name: Vincent Lejeune
Post by Vinvin Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:49 am
Dann Corbit wrote: ↑ Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:07 am
Not clear to me that either move wins. I analyzed the position after both key moves were made and then the key position.
The d3+ move has a better score, but it sure look hard to make progress. Maybe a draw. And Rf8 has an unconvincing score that seems to be tending back towards zero. I guess that a very long and deep analysis would be needed to determine which move is best.
Searching: b3r3/q2B2k1/3Q2p1/1p5p/4P3/3p1P2/1p4PP/5RK1 w - - 0 1
infinite: 0 time: 0 increment: 0 moves to go: 0
...
50 -3.29 14:03 7019M Kh1 Qf2 Rd1 d2 h3 Qe1+ Kh2 Rf8 Bf5 gxf5 Rxd2 Qh4 Rxb2 fxe4 fxe4 Qg5 Qd7+ Rf7 Qxb5 Qf4+ g3 Qxe4 Qg5+ Qg6 Rb5 Bf3 Kg1 Bc6 Rc5 Be8 Qxg6+ Kxg6 Re5 Bd7 g4 h4 Rh5 Rh7 Ra5 Be6 Ra6 Kf6 Ra5 Kg7 Kf2 Bf7 Kf3 Kh6 Ra6+ Bg6 Kf4 Rb7 Rc6 Rb4+ Ke3 Rb3+ Kf4 Rd3 Ra6 Rd4+ Kf3 Rd1 Kf4 Rf1+ Ke3 Re1+ Kf4 Re4+ Kf3 Rd4 Rc6 Kg7 Ke3 Re4+ Kf3 Rb4 Rc7+ Bf7 Ra7 Kg6 Ra6+ Kg5 Ra5+ Kf6 Ke3 Rb3+ Kf4 Rxh3 Rf5+ Kg6 Rh5
Nodes: 7020239969
Nodes/second: 8322375
Best move: Kh1
Searching: b4r2/q2B2k1/3Q2p1/1p5p/3pP3/5P2/1p4PP/5RK1 w - - 0 1
infinite: 0 time: 0 increment: 0 moves to go: 0
...
50 -1.22 16:26 8428M Bxb5 Rf6 Qb4 d3+ Kh1 Qb8 Qxb2 Bc6 Rd1 Qxb5 Qd4 Be8 Rxd3 Qb8 h3 Qf4 Qe3 Qc7 Rc3 Qg3 Rc8 Rd6 Qc1 Qe5 Rc5 Rd1+ Qxd1 Qxc5 h4 Kf8 Qa1 Kf7 Qa2+ Ke7 Qb2 Qa5 Kh2 Ke6 Qc1 Qe5+ Kg1 Qd4+ Kh2 Qd6+ Kg1 Qb6+ Kh1 Qc6 Qd2 Qc4 Qd8 Qb5 Qc8+ Ke7 Qc7+ Bd7 Qc3 Kf7 Qc7 Qc6 Qe5 Qf6 Qd5+ Be6 Qg5 Bc4 Kg1 Ke6 Qe3 Qb2 Kh2 Bf1 Qg5 Qe5+ Kg1 Qxg5 hxg5 Ba6
Nodes: 8428548988
Nodes/second: 8543172
Best move: Bxb5
Searching: b3r3/q2B2k1/3Q2p1/1p5p/3pP3/5P2/1p4PP/5RK1 b - - 0 1
infinite: 0 time: 0 increment: 0 moves to go: 0
...
50 +3.29 02:41 1513M d3+ Kh1 Qf2 Rd1 d2 h3 Qe1+ Kh2 Rf8 Bf5 gxf5 Rxd2 Qh4 Rxb2 fxe4 fxe4 Qg5 Qd7+ Rf7 Qxb5 Qf4+ g3 Qxe4 Qg5+ Qg6 Rb5 Bf3 Kg1 Bc6 Rc5 Be8 Qxg6+ Kxg6 Re5 Bd7 g4 h4 Rh5 Rh7 Ra5 Bc6 Ra6 Rc7 Ra5 Rb7 Rh5 Rh7 Rc5 Be8 Re5 Kf7 Kg2 Bc6+ Kf2 Kf6 Rf5+ Kg6 Kg1 Kg7 Ra5 Be8 Kf2 Kg6 Re5 Rh8 Rc5 Rf8+ Kg2 Kh6 Rc8 Kh7 Rc7+ Rf7 Rc8 Re7 Kf2 Re6 Kg2 Bc6+ Kg1 Kg7 Kf2 Rf6+ Ke3 Bg2 Rc5 Kg6 Rh5 Rf3+ Ke2 Rxh3 Kf2 Be4
Nodes: 1513919081
Nodes/second: 9372951
Best move: d3+
zullil wrote: ↑ Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:41 am
-6.58 1... Rf8 2. Be6 Rf6 3. Rb1 d3+ 4. Kh1 h4 5. h3 Qf7 6. Qxd3 Qxe6 7. Qc3 Bc6 8. Qxb2 Kg8 9. Qd4 Qd6 10. Qa7 Be8 11. Qf2 Qf4 12. Qa2+ Kh7 13. Qa7+ Rf7 14. Qa8 Qe5 15. Qd8 Re7 16. Rf1 g5 17. Qb6 Kg7 18. Rc1 Rd7 19. Qa5 Rd3 20. Qa7+ Bf7 21. Qa5 Rd6 22. Rb1 Rc6 23. Qb4 Kg6 24. Qb2 Qxb2 25. Rxb2 Be8 26. Kg1 Kf7 27. Kf2 Rc3 28. Kg1 Kf6 29. Kf2 Ke5 30. Ke2 Bd7 31. Kd1 Ra3 32. Kd2 Kf4 33. Rc2 Be6 34. Rc6 Bc4 35. Rf6+ Ke5 36. Rf8 Be6 37. Kc2 Ra2+ 38. Kc3 Rxg2 39. Rb8 Rf2 40. Rxb5+ Kf4 (depth 59, 2:48:08)
-3.06 1... d3+ 2. Kh1 Qf2 3. Rd1 d2 4. h3 Qe1+ 5. Kh2 Rf8 6. Bf5 gxf5 7. Rxd2 Qh4 8. Rxb2 fxe4 9. fxe4 Qg5 10. Qd7+ Rf7 11. Qxb5 Qf4+ 12. g3 Qxe4 13. Qg5+ Qg6 14. Rb5 Bf3 15. Kg1 Bc6 16. Rc5 Be8 17. Qe5+ Rf6 18. Qg5 Qxg5 19. Rxg5+ Bg6 20. Kg2 Rf7 21. Ra5 Be4+ 22. Kg1 Kg6 23. g4 h4 24. Rh5 Rh7 25. Re5 Bb7 26. Rf5 Re7 27. Rh5 Ba6 28. Kf2 Rh7 29. Rc5 Rf7+ 30. Kg1 Bd3 31. Rh5 Rb7 32. Kg2 Be4+ 33. Kg1 Rb3 34. Rxh4 Kg5 35. Rh8 Kf4 36. Rc8 Rg3+ 37. Kf2 Rg2+ 38. Kf1 Rd2 39. h4 Ke3 40. Rc3+ Bd3+ 41. Kg1 Kf3 42. Ra3 Kg3 43. Ra1 Rg2+ 44. Kh1 Rc2 (depth 59, 2:48:08)
Louis, which engine did you use ? after 1...Rf8, 2.Bxb5 seems a lot stronger than 2.Be6.
BTW, 1...d3+ can be found for deep reasons or shallow reasons. Probably not a good test position.
Thanks !
zullil
Posts: 6442Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 amLocation: PA USAFull name: Louis Zulli
Post by zullil Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:19 am
Vinvin wrote: ↑ Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:49 am
Louis, which engine did you use ? after 1...Rf8, 2.Bxb5 seems a lot stronger than 2.Be6.
BTW, 1...d3+ can be found for deep reasons or shallow reasons. Probably not a good test position.
Thanks !
Cfish-dev. Yes, now it sees 2. Bxb5, and 1...Rf8 has a much lower score.
This has been happening often lately---Cfish/Stockfish completely missing things even at very high depth, at least when MultiPV > 1. Strange.
Vinvin
Posts: 5228Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:40 amFull name: Vincent Lejeune
Post by Vinvin Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:52 pm
Vinvin wrote: ↑ Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:49 pm
Is Nf5 really better than Rhf4 ?
r2br1k1/1b3q1p/pp1p1ppB/3Nn3/n1PNP2R/4Q3/1P2B1PP/5R1K w - - bm Nf5;
Analyses after Nf5 :
Code: Select all
FEN: r2br1k1/1b3q1p/pp1p1ppB/3NnN2/n1P1P2R/4Q3/1P2B1PP/5R1K b - - 1 1
Stockfish_19082608_x64_modern:
...
51/64 26:13 13 446 263 289 8 544 411 +2,90 1. ... gxf5 2.exf5 Bxd5 3.Bh5 Qb7 4.Qg3+ Kh8 5.Bxe8 Bxg2+ 6.Qxg2 Qxg2+ 7.Kxg2 Nxb2 8.Re1 Nbd3 9.Re3 Be7 10.Bf7 Nxf7 11.Rxe7 Nde5 12.Bf4 Rg8+ 13.Kf1 Kg7 14.Rb7 Re8 15.Kg2 a5 16.Rh3 h5 17.Rxh5 Kg8 18.Bxe5 Rxe5 19.Rxb6 Kg7 20.Rb7 Rc5 21.Ra7 Rxc4 22.Rxa5 Rg4+ 23.Kf3 Rb4 24.Kg3 Rb3+ 25.Kf2 Rb4 26.Ra7 Rb2+ 27.Kg3 Rb3+ 28.Kf4 Rb4+ 29.Ke3 Rc4 30.Kf2 Rc5
52/84 28:11 14 403 258 592 8 517 376 +2,82 1. ... gxf5 2.exf5 Bxd5 3.Bh5 Qb7 4.Qg3+ Kh8 5.Bxe8 Bxg2+ 6.Qxg2 Qxg2+ 7.Kxg2 Nxb2 8.Re1 Nbd3 9.Re3 Be7 10.Bf7 Nxf7 11.Rxe7 Nde5 12.Bf4 Kg7 13.Rh3 b5 14.cxb5 axb5 15.Rb7 Ra2+ 16.Kg1 Ra1+ 17.Kf2 Ra2+ 18.Ke1 Ra1+ 19.Ke2 Ra2+ 20.Kd1 Ra1+ 21.Kc2 Ra8 22.Bxe5 dxe5 23.Rd3 Rc8+ 24.Kd2 Kf8 25.Rb6 e4 26.Rd5 Kg7 27.Rb7 Kf8 28.Ke3 Rc3+ 29.Kxe4 Rc4+ 30.Ke3 Rc3+ 31.Rd3 Rxd3+ 32.Kxd3 Nd6 33.Rxh7 Nxf5 34.Ke4 Ng7 35.Rh8+ Kf7 36.Rb8 Ne8 37.Kd5 Kf8 38.Ke6
Analyses after Rhf4 :
Code: Select all
FEN: r2br1k1/1b3q1p/pp1p1ppB/3Nn3/n1PNPR2/4Q3/1P2B1PP/5R1K b - - 1 1
Stockfish_19082608_x64_modern:
...
52/51- 49:13 28 221 428 929 9 554 159 +2,24 1. ... Bxd5
52/78 57:04 32 772 484 459 9 569 242 +2,55 1. ... Bxd5 2.cxd5 b5 3.Qh3 Nb6 4.Nf5 Nbc4 5.Ng7 Nb6 6.b4 Nbd7 7.Nxe8 Qxe8 8.Ra1 Nf8 9.Rff1 Nf7 10.Bxf8 Qxf8 11.Bxb5 Kg7 12.Qc3 Qe7 13.Bd3 Qb7 14.Qc6 Qb8 15.Bxa6 Ra7 16.Qc3 Qb6 17.Be2 Rxa1 18.Rxa1 Ng5 19.Qc4 Nf7 20.b5 Qe3 21.Qd3 Qc5 22.Rf1 Bb6 23.Qd2 Ne5 24.Qf4 Bd8 25.Qf2 Qxf2 26.Rxf2 Bb6 27.Rf1 h5
About the same eval.
I'll remove this position.
Paloma
Posts: 1167Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:07 pmFull name: Herbert L
Post by Paloma Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:24 pm
Hi Vincent,1. +- (3.64) : 1.Rb2 Bf6 2.Rg2 Bxe5 3.Bxe5 f6 4.Qg4 Qd7 5.Bd4 Rae8 6.Qxh4 Qh7 7.Qxh7+ Kxh7 8.h4 Ne6 9.fxe6 Rxe6 10.h5 Rg8 11.Bxf6 gxh5 12.Bd4 Re7 13.Rxg8 Kxg8 14.Rf5 Re2 15.a4 c6 16.Rxh5 b6 17.Rh8+ Kf7 18.Rh7+ Ke8 19.Rxa7 c5 20.Kf1 Rd2 21.Bf6 Rxd3 22.Ke2 Rg3 23.Re7+ Kf8 24.Rd7 Rg4 25.Bd8 Rxa4 26.Bxb6 Re4+ 27.Kd2 c4 28.Bd4 Rh4 29.Rxd5 Ke8 30.Rd6 Rh7 31.Rc6 Kd7 32.Rxc4 Rh2+ 33.Kd3 Rh3+ 34.Ke4 Ke6 35.Rc8 2. +- (3.61) : 1.f6 Nxh3+ 2.Kh1 Bd6 3.Qd2 Bxe5 4.Bxe5 Kh7 5.Qg2 g5 6.Rf3 Rg8 7.Rxh3 Rg6 8.Qf3 Kg8 9.Rh2 g4 10.Qf4 h3 11.Rf2 c5 12.Qg3 Qd7 13.Rg1 Qe6 14.Rgf1 d4 15.cxd4 cxd4 16.Re1 Rc8 17.Kh2 Rc3 18.Re4 Qc8 19.Bxd4 Rc2 20.Bxa7 Kh7 21.Ref4 Rxf2+ 22.Bxf2 Qe6 23.Qh4+ Rh6 24.Qxg4 Qxg4 25.Rxg4 Rxf6 26.Be3 Re6 27.Re4 Rxe4 28.dxe4 Kg6 29.Kxh3 f6 30.Kg3
Vinvin
Posts: 5228Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:40 amFull name: Vincent Lejeune
Post by Vinvin Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:30 am
Paloma wrote: ↑ Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:24 pm
Hi Vincent,
In this position: r1q2rk1/ppp1bp2/6p1/3pNPn1/7p/2PP3P/P6B/1R1Q1RK1 w - - 0 1 (Nr. 177 in the initial list)
I've found out 1.Rb2 are equal to 1.f6
Analysis by Stockfish 250719 64 BMI2:
1. +- (3.64) : 1.Rb2 Bf6 2.Rg2 Bxe5 3.Bxe5 f6 4.Qg4 Qd7 5.Bd4 Rae8 6.Qxh4 Qh7 7.Qxh7+ Kxh7 8.h4 Ne6 9.fxe6 Rxe6 10.h5 Rg8 11.Bxf6 gxh5 12.Bd4 Re7 13.Rxg8 Kxg8 14.Rf5 Re2 15.a4 c6 16.Rxh5 b6 17.Rh8+ Kf7 18.Rh7+ Ke8 19.Rxa7 c5 20.Kf1 Rd2 21.Bf6 Rxd3 22.Ke2 Rg3 23.Re7+ Kf8 24.Rd7 Rg4 25.Bd8 Rxa4 26.Bxb6 Re4+ 27.Kd2 c4 28.Bd4 Rh4 29.Rxd5 Ke8 30.Rd6 Rh7 31.Rc6 Kd7 32.Rxc4 Rh2+ 33.Kd3 Rh3+ 34.Ke4 Ke6 35.Rc8
2. +- (3.61) : 1.f6 Nxh3+ 2.Kh1 Bd6 3.Qd2 Bxe5 4.Bxe5 Kh7 5.Qg2 g5 6.Rf3 Rg8 7.Rxh3 Rg6 8.Qf3 Kg8 9.Rh2 g4 10.Qf4 h3 11.Rf2 c5 12.Qg3 Qd7 13.Rg1 Qe6 14.Rgf1 d4 15.cxd4 cxd4 16.Re1 Rc8 17.Kh2 Rc3 18.Re4 Qc8 19.Bxd4 Rc2 20.Bxa7 Kh7 21.Ref4 Rxf2+ 22.Bxf2 Qe6 23.Qh4+ Rh6 24.Qxg4 Qxg4 25.Rxg4 Rxf6 26.Be3 Re6 27.Re4 Rxe4 28.dxe4 Kg6 29.Kxh3 f6 30.Kg3
(Depth 52/98, 3 cores @3.7GHz, 8192MB Hash)
Thanks !
One more to take out !
Vinvin
Posts: 5228Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:40 amFull name: Vincent Lejeune
Post by Vinvin Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:58 pm
Vinvin wrote: ↑ Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:49 pm
Is Qg4 the only winning move ? How strong compare to other moves ?
5bk1/1b1rq2p/2p1p1p1/1pP1P3/1Pp1B2Q/2B3P1/5PK1/7R w - - bm Qg4; id "AlphaZero - Stockfish8";
Qh3 gives the same score :
search with 4 best moves :
Code: Select all
Stockfish_19082608_x64_modern:
...
50/61 24:46 11 900 570 429 8 003 827 +0,88 1.Qf6 Qf7 2.Qg5 Bc8 3.Qh4 Rc7 4.Ra1 Qe8 5.Bd2 Be7 6.Qg4 Bd7 7.Bh6 Rb7 8.Qf3 Rc7 9.Qd1 Kh8 10.Qc2 Kg8 11.Qd2 Qc8 12.Qf4 Qe8 13.Qf3 Qb8 14.Qg4 Qe8 15.Ra3 Rb7 16.Qf3 Rc7 17.Qd1 Qb8 18.Rf3 Qe8 19.Rf4 Bc8 20.Qg4 Ra7 21.Bg5 Bf8 22.Qf3 Bg7 23.Bf6 Bxf6 24.Rxf6 Rc7 25.Qd1 Ra7 26.Qg4 Kg7 27.Qh4 Re7
50/75 24:46 11 900 570 429 8 003 827 +0,88 1.Qf4 Qf7 2.Qf6 Rc7 3.Qh4 Bc8 4.Ra1 Qe8 5.Bd2 Be7 6.Qg4 Bd7 7.Bh6 Rb7 8.Qf3 Rc7 9.Qf4 Rc8 10.Qg4 Rc7 11.Ra3 Rb7 12.Qf3 Rc7 13.Qf4 Qb8 14.Rf3 Qe8 15.Qg4 Bc8 16.Ra3 Bd7 17.Bf4 Bf8 18.Ra1 Be7 19.Qd1 Rb7 20.Be3 Rc7 21.Qd2 Rb7 22.Qe2 Rb8 23.Qd1 Qc8 24.Qg4 Qe8 25.Rh1 Qf7 26.Rh6 Kg7 27.Qh3 Qg8 28.g4 Ra8 29.Qf3
50/102 24:46 11 900 570 429 8 003 827 +1,25 1.Qh3 Qf7 2.Ra1 Re7 3.Qg4 Re8 4.Ra7 Re7 5.f4 Rd7 6.Kf1 Qe8 7.Qh3 Bg7 8.Ke2 Qf7 9.Qh1 Rd8 10.Qh4 Rd7 11.Ra1 Bf8 12.Rf1 Qe7 13.Qg4 Bg7 14.Rg1 Qf7 15.Rh1 Rc7 16.Ra1 Rc8 17.Ra7 Qe7 18.Qh3 Qf7 19.Kf1 Rc7 20.Qh1 Qd7 21.Qf3 Rc8 22.Qg4 Rd8 23.Kf2 Rb8 24.Ke2 Rd8 25.Kf1 Kf8 26.Kg2 Re8 27.Ra2 Kg8 28.Rd2 Qf7 29.Kf1 Qc7 30.Rd6 Qf7 31.Qd1 Bh6 32.Rd7 Re7 33.Rd2 Bf8 34.Qg4 Rc7 35.Ra2 Rd7 36.Ra1 Qe8 37.Ra7 Rf7 38.Kg2 Qd7 39.Ra1 Bc8 40.Qf3 Bb7 41.Rh1 Qe8 42.Kf2 Be7 43.Rd1 Qa8 44.Kg2 Qc8 45.Qg4 Bf8 46.Rc1 Qd7 47.Rh1 Qe8 48.Kf2 Bc8 49.Bxg6 hxg6 50.Qxg6+ Bg7
50/81 24:46 11 900 570 429 8 003 827 +1,25 1.Qg4 Qf7 2.Ra1 Bg7 3.f4 Rc7 4.Ra7 Qe7 5.Kf1 Qe8 6.Kf2 Rd7 7.Qh3 Qf7 8.Qh1 Rd8 9.Qh4 Rc8 10.Qg4 Rd8 11.Ke2 Qd7 12.Kf1 Kf8 13.Kg2 Re8 14.Ra2 Kg8 15.Rd2 Qf7 16.Kf1 Qc7 17.Rd6 Qf7 18.Qd1 Bh6 19.Rd7 Re7 20.Rd2 Bf8 21.Qg4 Rc7 22.Ra2 Rd7 23.Ra1 Qe8 24.Ra7 Rf7 25.Kg2 Qd7 26.Kf2 Qc8 27.Qf3 Qd7 28.Ra1 Be7 29.Rd1 Qe8 30.Ke2 Qc8 31.Qg4 Bf8 32.Qh3 Qa8 33.Ra1 Qe8 34.Qh1 Re7 35.Qf3 Rd7 36.g4 Be7 37.Kf1
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50/61 27:03 12 985 044 893 7 997 376 +0,88 1.Qf6 Qf7 2.Qg5 Bc8 3.Qh4 Rc7 4.Ra1 Qe8 5.Bd2 Be7 6.Qg4 Bd7 7.Bh6 Rb7 8.Qf3 Rc7 9.Qd1 Kh8 10.Qc2 Kg8 11.Qd2 Qc8 12.Qf4 Qe8 13.Qf3 Qb8 14.Qg4 Qe8 15.Ra3 Rb7 16.Qf3 Rc7 17.Qd1 Qb8 18.Rf3 Qe8 19.Rf4 Bc8 20.Qg4 Ra7 21.Bg5 Bf8 22.Qf3 Bg7 23.Bf6 Bxf6 24.Rxf6 Rc7 25.Qd1 Ra7 26.Qg4 Kg7 27.Qh4 Re7
51/68 27:03 12 985 044 893 7 997 376 +0,88 1.Qf4 Qf7 2.Qf6 Rc7 3.Qh4 Bc8 4.Ra1 Qe8 5.Bd2 Be7 6.Qg4 Bd7 7.Bg5 Qd8 8.Bh6 Qe8 9.Qf3 Qb8 10.Be3 Qd8 11.Qd1 Qc8 12.Qg4 Qe8 13.Qe2 Rc8 14.Qf3 Rc7 15.Rh1 Qf8 16.Qe2 Qf7 17.Ra1 Qe8 18.Bf4 Qb8 19.Qg4 Qe8 20.Ra3 Bd8 21.Bh6 Be7 22.Kg1 Bd8 23.Rf3 Be7 24.Kh2 Rb7 25.Kg2 Bc8 26.Bg5 Bxg5 27.Qxg5 Rf7 28.Rxf7 Kxf7
51/77 27:03 12 985 044 893 7 997 376 +1,25 1.Qh3 Qf7 2.Ra1 Re7 3.Qg4 Re8 4.Rd1 Ra8 5.Rd4 Rc8 6.Qd1 Rc7 7.Rd8 Re7 8.f4 Re8 9.Rd4 Re7 10.Kf2 Re8 11.Rd7 Re7 12.Rd8 Re8 13.Rd4 Be7 14.Rd7 Bc8 15.Rd2 Bb7 16.Kf1 Bf8 17.Rd7 Re7 18.Rd6 Qe8 19.Kf2 Qf7 20.Qf3 Re8 21.Rd1 Bh6 22.Rd2 Bf8 23.Ke2 Qc7 24.g4 Bg7 25.Rd6 Qf7 26.Rd1 Rf8 27.Rf1 Qd7 28.Qh3
51/57 27:03 12 985 044 893 7 997 376 +1,25 1.Qg4 Qf7 2.Ra1 Bg7 3.f4 Rc7 4.Ra7 Qe7 5.Kf1 Qe8 6.Kf2 Rd7 7.Qh3 Qf7 8.Qh1 Rd8 9.Qh4 Rd7 10.Qh3 Bf8 11.Qg4 Qe8 12.Kf1 Rf7 13.Ke2 Rd7 14.Qh3 Bg7 15.Ra1 Qf7 16.Qh1 Qe8 17.Qh2 Re7 18.Qh4 Qf7 19.Ke3 Qe8 20.Kf2 Bf8 21.Qh3 Rf7 22.Ke2 Bc8 23.Ra8 Qd7 24.Qg2 Bb7 25.Ra1 Qc7 26.Qh1 Qd8 27.Qf3 Rd7 28.g4 Bc8 29.Ra8