Nop, things are much easier: Alpha Beta's take 2 minutes, AI's takes 2 seconds. Calculate against knowledge...
And of course you're right: Depths and nodes are not so meaningful in Leela.
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Nop, things are much easier: Alpha Beta's take 2 minutes, AI's takes 2 seconds. Calculate against knowledge...
Of course: On very slow hardware Alpha Beta's need 15 minutes and Leela 15 seconds...
Obviously said by someone who knows nothing about the Game Tree Complexity of chess. .mclane wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:36 pm But why do we need a 30 or 40 depth search to play a game of chess. It sounds to me like using 30 tons of tnt to open a door we could easily open by putting a key into the lock that fits.
Yes we can use 64 CPU cores and compute up to depth 45 . But why ??
What do you want to demonstrate with this ??
That you can waste more energy then others ?
In your classlessness you are probably totally unaware of the fact the MCTS-based engines (so Lc0 with all of it NN clones included) search much deeper than A/B engines. So if A/B engines in your analogy use 30 tons of tnt to open a door, Lc0 (and its NN clones) are using a 100 kt nuke for the same job.mclane wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:36 pm But why do we need a 30 or 40 depth search to play a game of chess. It sounds to me like using 30 tons of tnt to open a door we could easily open by putting a key into the lock that fits.
Yes we can use 64 CPU cores and compute up to depth 45 . But why ??
What do you want to demonstrate with this ??
That you can waste more energy then others ?
According to Stockfish-dev, c3 and Rec8 are equivalent by transposition:Spliffjiffer wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:41 pm im completely unsure though wether 1...Ra6/Rec8 (maybe 1...Re6 as well and even 1...h5 possibly) are really worse here...at least for Ra6/Rec8 the h5 idea (in mwyoung's SF-line) seems to work as well after a really quick overview from my side with bad hardware in use...maybe a SF-multiPV=5 search on strong hardware with decent amount of time could bring clearence...from my pov 1...c3 seems clearest as well though at first sight !?
Glarean wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:17 pm I organized a big tournament with 33 engines, including some derivatives of Stockfish and some networks for Leela.
(2m+2s permanent-brain on - AMD-Ryzen7-2700X & RTX2080 - 5-moves book)
The Ranking
I evaluated the whole tournament chess-wise and summarized it in a report (with download possibility of all PGN-files):
https://glarean-magazin.ch/2019/08/24/s ... ogramming/
(You can use the "Translate" button at the bottom left for an automatic english translation of the report).
One of the most interesting positions from these tournament games is this one here:
[d]r3r1k1/3b1ppp/8/1p1p4/nPpP1BP1/4P2P/P4P2/1NQ3K1 b – – 0 24
Here Leela played 24... c3!
An amazing move that the Alpha Beta engines don't see...
Greetings: Walter
Nice try Walter but unfortunately my friend these "results" are 100% meaningless..."Apples with Apples and Oranges with Oranges"mwyoung wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:43 pmIt was faster then 2 min. That is when I clip the analysis.Glarean wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:19 pm >Stockfish can find the move!
>Analysis by Stockfish 230819 64 POPCNT:
>1...c3 2.Na3 Rec8 3.Nc2 Nb2 4.a3 h5 5.f3 hxg4 6.hxg4 Nc4 7.Kf2 f6 8.Qd1 g5 9.Bg3 Be8 10.f4 Nd2 11.Kg2 Ne4 12.Qb1 Kg7 13.Qa1 Bd7 14.f5 Rh8 15.Ne1 Ra7 16.Nc2 Rha8 17.Qc1 Rc8 18.Qf1 Rg8 19.Qa1 Rh8 20.Ne1 Kf7 21.Nc2 Bc6 22.Ne1 Kg8 23.Nd3 Rah7 24.Nf2 c2 25.Qc1
>Black is clearly better: -+ (-2.07) Depth: 36/82 00:02:18 4308MN, tb=18119
Yeah, of course - but only after 2 minutes. Too late!
See Leela (0 sec!):
Analysis by Lc0 0.22 (NW42595):
24...c3 25.Dc2 Ta6 26.Kg2 h6 27.Kg3 Tc8 28.f3 Tc4 29.Sa3 Txb4 30.Dd3 Ta8 31.Sc2 Tb1 32.e4 Tc8 33.exd5 Sb6 34.d6 Sd5 35.De4 Sxf4 36.Kxf4 Tb2 37.a3 Te8 38.Dd3 Tc8
Schwarz steht deutlich besser: -/+ (-1.42) Tiefe: 6/19 00:00:00
Schwarz steht deutlich besser: -+ (-1.65) Tiefe: 14/40 00:00:55 1929kN
Leela doesn't calculate, Leela knows...
Greetings: Walter
.
But of course I thought you tested a bunch of A/B engines and said.
"An amazing move that the Alpha Beta engines don't see..."
Yes, Lc0 sees the move instantly!!!