planned weekly komodo vs human series on chess.com

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Chessqueen
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Re: planned weekly komodo vs human series on chess.com

Post by Chessqueen » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:07 pm

Chessqueen wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:04 pm
lkaufman wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:52 pm
BrendanJNorman wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:05 pm
lkaufman wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:26 pm
We are planning to start a weekly series of matches on chess.com. Each week Komodo would face some titled human opponent on chess.com for a rapid or blitz handicap match, details to be decided. We might use regular Komodo some times, MCTS version other times. The current plan is for this to happen on Wednesdays at 5 p.m. Eastern time. There won't generally be any chess.com tv coverage, although of course they are welcome to do so. You simply observe the games of "playkomodo". The first opponent, for next Wednesday (Aug. 21), is my son, I.M. Raymond Kaufman, who tied for first place in the Canadian Open last year. Probably three hours total time. Some weeks I may play against Komodo myself. Any titled players who would like to volunteer to play in one of these events let us know here. In general it would just be for fun, although we can find some prize money for GMs. Ideas for handicaps are welcome, but please remember that it has to be something that can be specified as a pgn, we won't have the ability to do things that require special rules beyond what a pgn can specify. One idea I want to include is chess960 with knight odds, but it has to be one of the 18 positions that allow normal castling on both sides since chess960 isn't set up to allow for changing the start position currently.
Also going to use some high Dynamism and Contempt sometimes too? I think that'll be fun...nobody will be strong enough to exploit the slight drop in strength, and the highly tactical nature will likely blow away the human in spectacular fashion. 8-)
If we use regular Komodo, we always raise Contempt for handicap games, and King Safety (which is part of Dynamism) is higher in current version. For MCTS, some "Contempt" is effectively built-in, as the assumption that the opponent won't always play the "best" response raises our expected score.
Larry It would be nice if you can narrate or do live commentary on chess.com I would even pay a $05.00 or $10.00 per month subscription like on TCEC to watch it every Wednesday and learn how to play better chess from You or Chess.com can charge an extra $10.00 subscription to hire a GM and make commentaries LIVE

lkaufman
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Re: planned weekly komodo vs human series on chess.com

Post by lkaufman » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:24 pm

Chessqueen wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:04 pm
lkaufman wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:52 pm
BrendanJNorman wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:05 pm
lkaufman wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:26 pm
We are planning to start a weekly series of matches on chess.com. Each week Komodo would face some titled human opponent on chess.com for a rapid or blitz handicap match, details to be decided. We might use regular Komodo some times, MCTS version other times. The current plan is for this to happen on Wednesdays at 5 p.m. Eastern time. There won't generally be any chess.com tv coverage, although of course they are welcome to do so. You simply observe the games of "playkomodo". The first opponent, for next Wednesday (Aug. 21), is my son, I.M. Raymond Kaufman, who tied for first place in the Canadian Open last year. Probably three hours total time. Some weeks I may play against Komodo myself. Any titled players who would like to volunteer to play in one of these events let us know here. In general it would just be for fun, although we can find some prize money for GMs. Ideas for handicaps are welcome, but please remember that it has to be something that can be specified as a pgn, we won't have the ability to do things that require special rules beyond what a pgn can specify. One idea I want to include is chess960 with knight odds, but it has to be one of the 18 positions that allow normal castling on both sides since chess960 isn't set up to allow for changing the start position currently.
Also going to use some high Dynamism and Contempt sometimes too? I think that'll be fun...nobody will be strong enough to exploit the slight drop in strength, and the highly tactical nature will likely blow away the human in spectacular fashion. 8-)
If we use regular Komodo, we always raise Contempt for handicap games, and King Safety (which is part of Dynamism) is higher in current version. For MCTS, some "Contempt" is effectively built-in, as the assumption that the opponent won't always play the "best" response raises our expected score.
Larry It would be nice if you can narrate or do live commentary on chess.com I would even pay a $5.00 or $10.00 per month subscription like on TCEC to watch it every Wednesday and learn how to play better chess from You; or Chess.com can charge an extra $10.00 subscription to hire a GM and make LIVE commentaries. Will the hardware be less powerful than the one used against GM Nakamura ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0-sxnAzMMw&t=236s
I should at least be able to make comments on the live game in chat, no charge for that! Hardware should be same as used in MVL and Nakamura matches. By the way, Nakamura is now World number 1 in FIDE blitz ratings (due to Carlsen drop), so our last two opponents in these matches are now number one in rapid and blitz, and the matches they played were rapid and blitz respectively!
Komodo rules!

Father
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Re: planned weekly komodo vs human series on chess.com

Post by Father » Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:01 am

😇😇 I would like to play against Komodo, but I am not a tittled chess player. 🙋‍♂️🙏🙏
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.

lkaufman
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Re: planned weekly komodo vs human series on chess.com

Post by lkaufman » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:34 am

Father wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:01 am
😇😇 I would like to play against Komodo, but I am not a tittled chess player. 🙋‍♂️🙏🙏
We only play with increments, having no interest in seeing games decided by lag. If you still want to try some games, presumably to see whether you can get fortress draws, it might be worth some games to see whether Contempt is enough to avoid such draws. One issue is that the success of this fortress-seeking plan may depend primarily on the opening book, rather than the engine, I'm not sure about that.
Komodo rules!

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Ovyron
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Re: planned weekly komodo vs human series on chess.com

Post by Ovyron » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:19 am

lkaufman wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:34 am
Father wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:01 am
😇😇 I would like to play against Komodo, but I am not a tittled chess player. 🙋‍♂️🙏🙏
We only play with increments, having no interest in seeing games decided by lag. If you still want to try some games, presumably to see whether you can get fortress draws, it might be worth some games to see whether Contempt is enough to avoid such draws. One issue is that the success of this fortress-seeking plan may depend primarily on the opening book, rather than the engine, I'm not sure about that.
I remember that at some point, Father was challenged to play a draw against a Pro Deo personality specifically designed to avoid closed positions (i.e. it would be willing to trade Knight for Pawn to avoid a closed position), and Father was never able to get any draw (only lost games), so I guess it'd be trivial to make an Anti-Father Komodo (as easy as changing Komodo's Knight values to 1.0 (third of a knight), and Father's Pawn values to 2.0 (two pawns), and normalize scores after a sacrifice happened.)

Perhaps something more interesting would be to get someone expert in closing chess positions (like Father) but able to beat the engine if the engine has to get down on material to keep the position open (as Pro Deo was allowing lost positions that Father wasn't able to convert to a win, perhaps someone else would be able to convert those.) Unless Komodo Contempt is strong enough to keep the position open without incurring in any positional disadvantage, and the problem of closed positions was solved long time ago (...if it was there at all, as perhaps with Increment an engine always opens the position eventually, so without lag Father can't even draw.)
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.

mjlef
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Re: planned weekly komodo vs human series on chess.com

Post by mjlef » Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:29 pm

Ovyron wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:19 am
lkaufman wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:34 am
Father wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:01 am
😇😇 I would like to play against Komodo, but I am not a tittled chess player. 🙋‍♂️🙏🙏
We only play with increments, having no interest in seeing games decided by lag. If you still want to try some games, presumably to see whether you can get fortress draws, it might be worth some games to see whether Contempt is enough to avoid such draws. One issue is that the success of this fortress-seeking plan may depend primarily on the opening book, rather than the engine, I'm not sure about that.
I remember that at some point, Father was challenged to play a draw against a Pro Deo personality specifically designed to avoid closed positions (i.e. it would be willing to trade Knight for Pawn to avoid a closed position), and Father was never able to get any draw (only lost games), so I guess it'd be trivial to make an Anti-Father Komodo (as easy as changing Komodo's Knight values to 1.0 (third of a knight), and Father's Pawn values to 2.0 (two pawns), and normalize scores after a sacrifice happened.)

Perhaps something more interesting would be to get someone expert in closing chess positions (like Father) but able to beat the engine if the engine has to get down on material to keep the position open (as Pro Deo was allowing lost positions that Father wasn't able to convert to a win, perhaps someone else would be able to convert those.) Unless Komodo Contempt is strong enough to keep the position open without incurring in any positional disadvantage, and the problem of closed positions was solved long time ago (...if it was there at all, as perhaps with Increment an engine always opens the position eventually, so without lag Father can't even draw.)
Komodo's Contempt has a few parts, two of which discourages closed positions if the Contempt is positive. We never seriously tuned this term, but with big enough Contempt it should keep the game open.

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Ovyron
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Re: planned weekly komodo vs human series on chess.com

Post by Ovyron » Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:04 pm

I think it would be helpful if it was separated from Contempt. In my experience for analysis of correspondence games, it's easier to defeat weaker opposition in closed positions (not too close that you can't make progress, but of the kind where the middle game has most pawns, usually locked in the center, and all pieces.) So a combination of Contempt+Closed Positions personality would be interesting.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.

Father
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Re: planned weekly komodo vs human series on chess.com

Post by Father » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:07 pm

lkaufman wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:34 am
Father wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:01 am
😇😇 I would like to play against Komodo, but I am not a tittled chess player. 🙋‍♂️🙏🙏
We only play with increments, having no interest in seeing games decided by lag. If you still want to try some games, presumably to see whether you can get fortress draws, it might be worth some games to see whether Contempt is enough to avoid such draws. One issue is that the success of this fortress-seeking plan may depend primarily on the opening book, rather than the engine, I'm not sure about that.
Larry, I am ready for playing with increments against the computer, and with handicap in favor of computer side; example: Komodo 5+3 and for me 4+3.

Problem it is that i dont have time for playing this weekend, but Komodo it is welcome ever.

I believe I could do it well. For me beat top computers has been a real goal that I have repeated on the desk, in internet, agaisnt the hardware and in all atmospheras
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.

Chessqueen
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Re: planned weekly komodo vs human series on chess.com

Post by Chessqueen » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:21 pm

Father wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:07 pm
lkaufman wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:34 am
Father wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:01 am
😇😇 I would like to play against Komodo, but I am not a tittled chess player. 🙋‍♂️🙏🙏
We only play with increments, having no interest in seeing games decided by lag. If you still want to try some games, presumably to see whether you can get fortress draws, it might be worth some games to see whether Contempt is enough to avoid such draws. One issue is that the success of this fortress-seeking plan may depend primarily on the opening book, rather than the engine, I'm not sure about that.
Larry, I am ready for playing with increments against the computer, and with handicap in favor of computer side; example: Komodo 5+3 and for me 4+3.

Problem it is that i dont have time for playing this weekend, but Komodo it is welcome ever.

I believe I could do it well. For me beat top computers has been a real goal that I have repeated on the desk, in internet, agaisnt the hardware and in all atmospheras
Show us any games where you have beaten a decent Engine at Blitz :roll:

Father
Posts: 1271
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Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: planned weekly komodo vs human series on chess.com

Post by Father » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:27 pm

Eman 3.81 64-bit BMI2 (112 threads): 33.2 plies; 88.504kN/s Intel(R) Xeon(R) Platinum 8176M CPU @ 2.10GHz 2100MHz, (56 cores, 112 threads) Grand-Father - Wilson Fisk ½-2½ Eman 3.81 64-bit BMI2 (112 threads): 32.6 plies; 88.662kN/s Intel(R) Xeon(R) Platinum 8176M CPU @ 2.10GHz 2100MHz, (56 cores, 112 threads) New Elo: 2009 (+15), Classic.

88.504.000 nodes it is simple example ...where I won as human. You could see thousands of examples more. You are welcome at playchess engine room for playing versus me with your best engines. Dont be sad with your probably games loosing. 10-15% at least.
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.

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