Spectacular incursion of the King

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: hgm, Harvey Williamson, bob

Forum rules
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the [d] tag before the upgrade.
zullil
Posts: 5431
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:31 pm
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: Spectacular incursion of the King

Post by zullil » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:52 pm

Guenther wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:24 pm
zullil wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:35 am
Guenther wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:01 pm

75...a4! was another good move by LC0, but it seems SF played quite bad some of the next moves
may be also due to time management problems?


It seems that Stockfish's failure to play 75. a4 loses the game.
I want to mention that Stockfish also already had a remarkable fail low in move 26.
Here its score went down by 2.35! after 25. Rd2 and the unexpected reply 25...Kf7
despite investing 117 seconds for 26. Kf2.

Stockfish's 25.Rd2 1,11/24 8,50 is hard to explain. Hard to imagine that SF-10 would play this at depth 24. Also, why was this move played more hastily than other nearby moves?

jmartus
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 12:50 am

Re: Spectacular incursion of the King

Post by jmartus » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:09 pm

Im hoping lc0 makes tcec finals then we can see some real games and know everything legit

Javier Ros
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:48 am
Location: Seville (SPAIN)
Full name: Javier Ros

Re: Spectacular incursion of the King

Post by Javier Ros » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:16 pm

zullil wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:52 pm
Guenther wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:24 pm
zullil wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:35 am
Guenther wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:01 pm

75...a4! was another good move by LC0, but it seems SF played quite bad some of the next moves
may be also due to time management problems?


It seems that Stockfish's failure to play 75. a4 loses the game.
I want to mention that Stockfish also already had a remarkable fail low in move 26.
Here its score went down by 2.35! after 25. Rd2 and the unexpected reply 25...Kf7
despite investing 117 seconds for 26. Kf2.

Stockfish's 25.Rd2 1,11/24 8,50 is hard to explain. Hard to imagine that SF-10 would play this at depth 24. Also, why was this move played more hastily than other nearby moves?
Analizing before 25.Rd2 in the same computer i7 4790S 6 cores, with best 5 moves:

at ply 21 Rd2 +1.02 is the second best move at 6 sec behind Rfe1 +1.49,
at ply 22 the evaluation of the best move fell to +0.10 and temporarily Rd2 became the best move before fall to -0.11, a this moment the program played...

FEN: r5k1/6q1/1p1p1rp1/pNnPppQ1/2P2n2/5P1P/PP2B1P1/3R1RK1 w - - 4 25

Stockfish_10_x64_bmi2:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
18/27 00:01 13.352.418 7.501.358 +0,75 25.Rf1-f2 Qg7-e7 26.Be2-f1 Kg8-g7 27.Nb5-d4 Qe7-c7 28.a2-a3 a5-a4 29.g2-g3 Nc5-d3 30.Nd4-b5 Nd3xf2 31.Qg5xf6+ Kg7xf6 32.Nb5xc7 Nf4xh3+ 33.Bf1xh3 Nf2xh3+ 34.Kg1-g2 Ra8-h8 35.Nc7-b5 Nh3-g5 36.Nb5xd6
18/30 00:01 13.352.418 7.501.358 +0,77 25.Nb5-c3 Rf6-f7 26.Rf1-e1 Qg7-f8 27.Be2-f1 Rf7-h7 28.Nc3-b5 Kg8-g7 29.b2-b3 Ra8-c8 30.Kg1-h1 Rh7-h8 31.Kh1-h2 Rc8-a8 32.Kh2-g1 Rh8-h7 33.Qg5-g3 Qf8-f6 34.Qg3-f2 Ra8-h8 35.Kg1-h2 g6-g5 36.a2-a3 e5-e4 37.f3xe4 Nc5xe4
18/29 00:01 13.352.418 7.501.358 +0,79 25.Rd1-e1 a5-a4 26.Kg1-h2 Ra8-c8 27.Rf1-g1 Nc5-d3 28.Be2xd3 Nf4xd3 29.Re1-d1 Nd3xb2 30.Rd1-b1 Nb2-d3 31.Qg5-e3 Nd3-c5 32.Qe3-d2 Qg7-e7 33.Rg1-e1 Qe7-d8 34.Nb5-c3 Rf6-f7 35.Re1-d1
18/25 00:01 13.352.418 7.501.358 +1,04 25.Rd1-d2 Qg7-e7 26.Rf1-e1 Kg8-g7 27.Be2-f1 Qe7-d8 28.a2-a3 a5-a4 29.g2-g3 Nf4-h5 30.Bf1-d3 f5-f4 31.g3-g4 Nc5xd3 32.Rd2xd3 Nh5-g3 33.Nb5-c3 Rf6-f8 34.Qg5xd8
18/24 00:01 13.352.418 7.501.358 +1,41 25.Rf1-e1 Nf4-h5 26.Be2-d3 Nc5xd3 27.Rd1xd3 f5-f4 28.Rd3-d1 Nh5-g3 29.Kg1-h2 a5-a4 30.Nb5-c3 Qg7-f7 31.b2-b4 a4xb3/ep 32.a2xb3 Kg8-g7 33.Rd1-a1 Ra8-h8 34.Nc3-e4 Ng3xe4 35.f3xe4
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
19/30 00:02 16.687.836 7.513.658 +0,87 25.Rf1-f2 Qg7-e7 26.Be2-f1 Kg8-g7 27.Nb5-d4 Qe7-c7 28.a2-a3 a5-a4 29.g2-g3 Nf4-h5 30.g3-g4 Nh5-g3 31.Qg5-h4 e5xd4 32.g4-g5 Rf6-f8 33.Qh4xg3 d4-d3 34.Qg3-h4 Rf8-h8 35.Qh4-d4+ Kg7-g8
19/29 00:02 16.687.836 7.513.658 +0,98 25.Nb5-c3 Rf6-f7 26.Kg1-h2 Qg7-h8 27.Rf1-e1 Rf7-h7 28.Be2-f1 Kg8-f7 29.Nc3-b5 Qh8-f8 30.b2-b3 Kf7-g7 31.Qg5-g3 Nf4-h5 32.Qg3-f2 Qf8-d8
19/31 00:02 16.687.836 7.513.658 +1,15 25.Rd1-e1 Qg7-e7 26.Be2-d1 Qe7-f8 27.Kg1-h2 Nc5-d3 28.Re1-e3 Nd3xb2 29.Re3-c3 Ra8-c8 30.Bd1-b3 Kg8-g7 31.Rf1-b1 Nb2-d3 32.Nb5-a7 Rc8-a8 33.Na7-c6 Nd3-b4 34.Bb3-a4 Nf4-e2 35.Rc3-a3
19/23 00:02 16.687.836 7.513.658 +1,23 25.Rd1-d2 Qg7-e7 26.Rf1-e1 Qe7-d8 27.a2-a3 a5-a4 28.Kg1-h2 Rf6-f7 29.Qg5xd8+ Ra8xd8 30.Rd2-d1 Kg8-g7 31.Nb5-c3 e5-e4 32.f3xe4 f5xe4 33.Be2-f1 Nf4-d3 34.Bf1xd3
19/32 00:02 16.687.836 7.513.658 +1,45 25.Rf1-e1 Nf4-h5 26.Be2-d3 Nc5xd3 27.Rd1xd3 Ra8-c8 28.b2-b3 f5-f4 29.Rd3-d1 Nh5-g3 30.Qg5-h4 g6-g5 31.Qh4-g4 Rc8-a8 32.Nb5-c3 Ra8-b8 33.Nc3-e4 Ng3xe4 34.Re1xe4 b6-b5 35.Kg1-h2 Rf6-h6 36.Qg4-f5 b5xc4
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
20/28 00:04 30.639.768 7.484.066 +0,68 25.Rf1-f2 Qg7-e7 26.Be2-f1 Kg8-g7 27.g2-g3 Nf4-h5 28.h3-h4 f5-f4 29.g3-g4 Nh5-g3 30.Rd1-e1 Ra8-e8 31.h4-h5 e5-e4 32.f3xe4 Qe7-e5 33.Qg5xe5 Re8xe5 34.h5xg6 Ng3xe4 35.Rf2-f3 Ne4-d2
20/29 00:04 30.639.768 7.484.066 +0,95 25.Nb5-c3 Rf6-f7 26.Kg1-h2 Qg7-h8 27.Rf1-e1 Rf7-h7 28.Be2-f1 Qh8-g7 29.Nc3-b5 Qg7-f8 30.Qg5-g3 Qf8-f6 31.Qg3-f2 Nf4-h5 32.b2-b3 f5-f4 33.a2-a3 e5-e4 34.f3xe4 Nh5-g3 35.Qf2-d4 Qf6xd4 36.Nb5xd4
20/36 00:04 30.639.768 7.484.066 +1,06 25.Kg1-f2 Nf4xe2 26.Kf2xe2 e5-e4 27.Rf1-e1 f5-f4 28.f3xe4 Nc5xe4 29.Qg5-g4 Ra8-f8 30.Ke2-f1 Ne4-c5 31.Qg4-f3 Nc5-d7 32.Nb5-d4 Nd7-e5 33.Re1xe5 d6xe5 34.Nd4-e6 Qg7-e7 35.Ne6xf8 Kg8xf8 36.Qf3-c3 Kf8-g7
20/34 00:04 30.639.768 7.484.066 +1,18 25.Rd1-d2 Qg7-f8 26.Kg1-h2 Qf8-d8 27.g2-g3 Nf4-h5 28.Be2-d3 Kg8-g7 29.Bd3-c2 Rf6-f8 30.Qg5xd8 Ra8xd8 31.Rf1-d1 f5-f4 32.g3-g4 Nh5-g3 33.Rd1-e1 Rf8-h8 34.Rd2-d1 Kg7-f6 35.a2-a3
20/29 00:04 30.639.768 7.484.066 +1,56 25.Rf1-e1 Nf4-h5 26.Be2-d3 Nc5xd3 27.Rd1xd3 Ra8-c8 28.b2-b3 f5-f4 29.Nb5-c3 Nh5-g3 30.Nc3-e4 Ng3xe4 31.f3xe4 Rc8-f8 32.Re1-c1 Qg7-c7 33.h3-h4 Kg8-g7 34.Kg1-h2 Rf8-h8 35.Rd3-h3 Qc7-d8 36.h4-h5
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
21/32 00:06 49.016.652 7.528.283 +0,64 25.Kg1-f2 Qg7-e7 26.Rf1-e1 Kg8-g7 27.Nb5-d4 Qe7-c7 28.Kf2-g1 Ra8-h8 29.Kg1-h2 Rh8-h5 30.Qg5-g3 Rf6-f8 31.Be2-f1 Qc7-d8 32.Qg3-f2 Qd8-f6 33.Nd4-b5 Rf8-h8 34.Re1-e3 Qf6-d8 35.Rd1-e1 Rh5-h7 36.Qf2-c2 Rh7-h5 37.Qc2-d2 Qd8-f6 38.Qd2-f2
21/35 00:06 49.016.652 7.528.283 +0,93 25.Rf1-f2 Qg7-e7 26.Be2-f1 Kg8-g7 27.Nb5-d4 Nf4xh3+ 28.g2xh3 e5xd4 29.Rf2-e2 Qe7-d8 30.Re2-g2 Qd8-e7 31.Rd1xd4 f5-f4 32.Rg2-e2 Qe7-f7 33.Rd4xf4 Rf6xf4 34.Re2-e7 Rf4xf3 35.Re7xf7+ Rf3xf7 36.Qg5-e3 Ra8-h8 37.Bf1-e2 Rf7-f5 38.Qe3-e7+ Rf5-f7 39.Qe7xd6 Rh8xh3 40.Qd6xb6
21/28 00:06 49.016.652 7.528.283 +1,02 25.Nb5-c3 Rf6-f7 26.Kg1-h2 Qg7-h8 27.Rf1-e1 Rf7-h7 28.Be2-f1 Kg8-f7 29.Nc3-b5 Qh8-d8 30.Qg5-g3 Nf4-h5 31.Qg3-f2 f5-f4 32.Bf1-d3 Nc5xd3 33.Rd1xd3 Nh5-g3 34.a2-a3 Rh7-h5 35.b2-b3 Kf7-g7
21/30 00:06 49.016.652 7.528.283 +1,02 25.Rd1-d2 Qg7-e7 26.Rf1-e1 Kg8-g7 27.Be2-f1 Qe7-d8 28.g2-g3 Nf4-h5 29.h3-h4 Rf6-f8 30.Kg1-g2 Qd8xg5 31.h4xg5 Ra8-d8 32.Bf1-d3 Kg7-f7 33.Re1-h1 Kf7-g7 34.Bd3-c2 f5-f4 35.g3xf4 Rf8xf4 36.b2-b3 Rf4-f8 37.Rh1-h4 Nh5-f4+ 38.Kg2-g3
21/40 00:06 49.016.652 7.528.283 +1,49 25.Rf1-e1 Nf4-h5 26.Be2-d3 Nc5xd3 27.Rd1xd3 Ra8-c8 28.Rd3-c3 f5-f4 29.Rc3-b3 Nh5-g3 30.Nb5-c3 Rf6-f5 31.Qg5-g4 Rc8-b8 32.Nc3-e4 Ng3xe4 33.f3xe4 Rf5-f6 34.h3-h4 Qg7-a7 35.Kg1-h2 Kg8-g7 36.h4-h5 Rb8-h8 37.Rb3-h3 Rh8-h6 38.Re1-f1 Qa7-e7 39.b2-b3 Rh6-h8 40.a2-a3
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
22/38 00:23 180.095.342 7.551.167 -0,39 25.Nb5-c3 Kg8-f7 26.Rf1-e1 Ra8-h8 27.Be2-f1 Rh8-h5 28.Qg5-g3 g6-g5 29.a2-a3 a5-a4 30.Kg1-h2 Kf7-g8 31.Bf1-e2 Rf6-g6 32.Re1-f1 Rg6-h6 33.Rf1-e1 Rh6-f6 34.Rd1-d2 Rh5-h8 35.Kh2-g1 Rf6-h6 36.Be2-f1 g5-g4 37.f3xg4 Rh6-g6
22/36 00:23 180.095.342 7.551.167 -0,13 25.Nb5-d4 Kg8-f7 26.Rf1-e1 Ra8-h8 27.Nd4-e6 Nf4xe6 28.d5xe6+ Rf6xe6 29.Rd1-d2 Qg7-f8 30.Be2-d3 Rh8-h5 31.Qg5-e3 Qf8-e7 32.Re1-d1 Qe7-h4 33.Bd3-f1 f5-f4 34.Qe3-f2 Qh4xf2+ 35.Kg1xf2 e5-e4 36.Rd2xd6 e4-e3+ 37.Kf2-e2 Rh5-e5 38.Rd6xe6 Re5xe6
22/40 00:23 180.095.342 7.551.167 -0,11 25.Rd1-d2 Kg8-f7 26.Kg1-h2 Ra8-h8 27.Rf1-g1 Kf7-g8 28.a2-a3 a5-a4 29.Nb5-c3 Rh8-h5 30.Qg5-g3 Qg7-h6 31.Rd2-d1 g6-g5 32.Rd1-d2 Rh5-h4 33.Rg1-f1 Nf4xe2 34.Rd2xe2 Rh4xc4 35.Rf1-d1 Qh6-g7 36.Kh2-g1 Nc5-b3 37.Nc3-b5 Rc4-c5 38.Nb5-c3 Nb3-d4
22/39 00:23 180.095.342 7.551.167 +0,10 25.Rf1-e1 Kg8-f7 26.Be2-f1 Ra8-h8 27.a2-a3 a5-a4 28.Kg1-h2 Rh8-h5 29.Qg5-g3 g6-g5 30.Nb5-c7 Rf6-h6 31.Nc7-e6 Nf4xe6 32.d5xe6+ Rh6xe6 33.Rd1-d5 Kf7-g8 34.Re1-d1 Qg7-e7 35.Qg3-e1 Re6-g6 36.g2-g3 f5-f4 37.Bf1-d3 Nc5xd3 38.Rd5xd3 f4xg3+ 39.Qe1xg3
22/36 00:23 180.095.342 7.551.167 +0,12 25.Rf1-f2 Kg8-f7 26.Be2-f1 Ra8-h8 27.Rf2-c2 Rh8-h5 28.Qg5-g3 g6-g5 29.Nb5-c7 Kf7-f8 30.Nc7-e6+ Nc5xe6 31.d5xe6 Qg7-c7 32.a2-a3 Nf4xe6 33.Rc2-c3 Ne6-d4 34.b2-b4 a5-a4 35.Qg3-f2 Rf6-h6 36.Rc3-c1 Rh5-h4 37.Bf1-d3 f5-f4 38.Bd3-e4 Qc7-d7
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
22/38 00:36 274.877.691 7.600.655 -0,39 25.Nb5-c3 Kg8-f7 26.Rf1-e1 Ra8-h8 27.Be2-f1 Rh8-h5 28.Qg5-g3 g6-g5 29.a2-a3 a5-a4 30.Kg1-h2 Kf7-g8 31.Bf1-e2 Rf6-g6 32.Re1-f1 Rg6-h6 33.Rf1-e1 Rh6-f6 34.Rd1-d2 Rh5-h8 35.Kh2-g1 Rf6-h6 36.Be2-f1 g5-g4 37.f3xg4 Rh6-g6
23/30 00:36 274.877.691 7.600.655 -0,45 25.Rd1-d2 Kg8-f7
23/40 00:36 274.877.691 7.600.655 -0,26 25.Rf1-f2 Kg8-f7 26.Nb5-d4 Ra8-h8 27.Nd4-e6 Nf4xe6 28.d5xe6+ Rf6xe6 29.Be2-d3 Qg7-f6 30.Qg5xf6+ Kf7xf6 31.Rf2-d2 Rh8-h4 32.Bd3-f1 Kf6-e7 33.g2-g3 Rh4-h8 34.h3-h4 f5-f4 35.g3xf4 e5-e4 36.f3xe4 Nc5xe4 37.Rd2-e2 Rh8xh4
23/32 00:36 274.877.691 7.600.655 -0,15 25.Nb5-d4 Kg8-f7 26.Rf1-f2 Ra8-h8 27.Nd4-e6 Nf4xe6 28.d5xe6+ Rf6xe6 29.Be2-d3 Qg7-f6 30.Qg5xf6+ Kf7xf6 31.Rf2-d2 Rh8-h4 32.Bd3-f1 Kf6-e7 33.g2-g3 Rh4-h5 34.Bf1-g2 f5-f4 35.Kg1-f2 f4xg3+ 36.Kf2xg3 Re6-f6 37.Rd2-d5 Rh5-g5+ 38.Kg3-h2
23/39 00:36 274.877.691 7.600.655 0,00 25.Rf1-e1 Kg8-f7 26.Qg5-g3 Ra8-h8 27.Nb5-c7 Kf7-f8 28.Nc7-e6+ Nc5xe6 29.d5xe6 Qg7-c7 30.Be2-f1 Qc7-c5+ 31.Qg3-f2 Qc5xf2+ 32.Kg1xf2 Kf8-e7 33.Rd1-d2 Nf4xe6 34.Rd2-d5 Ne6-c7 35.Rd5-d1 Nc7-e6



This game was part of a test between Stockfish 10 and Lc0 ID 32367 and 32467, with the Balsa_Top25.pgn suite

lc0201_32367_32467SF10Balsa15p3 2019

stockfish_10_x6 - lc0201_32367 23.0 - 27.0 +5/=36/-9 46.00%
stockfish_10_x6 - lc0201_32467 26.5 - 23.5 +7/=39/-4 53.00%

Here the complete pgn from Cutechess output, the game is the number 33

https://sites.google.com/site/unoallavo ... ects=0&d=1

As a curiosity, the corresponding game between Stockfish 10 and Lc0 32467 was draw, game 58

The love relationship between a chess engine tester and his computer can be summarized in one sentence:
Until heat do us part.

yanquis1972
Posts: 1762
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:14 pm

Re: Spectacular incursion of the King

Post by yanquis1972 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:14 pm

jmartus wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:09 pm
Im hoping lc0 makes tcec finals then we can see some real games and know everything legit
Lol, implying this game was faked??

JFK, the moon landing, 9/11 and now alphazero!

Javier Ros
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:48 am
Location: Seville (SPAIN)
Full name: Javier Ros

Re: Spectacular incursion of the King

Post by Javier Ros » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:39 pm

It is interesting to note that from another test with Stockfish Dev and same versions of Lc0 32367 and 32467 on 2xGTX 1060, in the 8th position of Balsa test, version 32367 won again with 8...h5 and the pawn sacrifice h4 in the following game, while version 32467 only draw with 8...Ae7.






Lc0 on GTX1060x2 vs SF10 on i7 980X 6 cores, 15 minutes plus 3 sec with 25 positions of Balsa suitex2=50 games, with 6 pieces syzygy tablebases for Lc0 and TB adjudication (LeR approx 1)


Stockfish_19010616_x64_modern 2200 - Lc0201_32367x2 2200 26.5 - 23.5 +8/=37/-5 53.00%
Stockfish_19010616_x64_modern 2200 - Lc0201_32467x2 2200 27.0 - 23.0 +7/=40/-3 54.00%

Complete pgn

https://sites.google.com/site/unoallavo ... ects=0&d=1
The love relationship between a chess engine tester and his computer can be summarized in one sentence:
Until heat do us part.

Javier Ros
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:48 am
Location: Seville (SPAIN)
Full name: Javier Ros

Re: Spectacular incursion of the King

Post by Javier Ros » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:20 pm

Reviewing the 8th game of Balsa suite of some of my previous tests, I found that the move 8 ... h5 that I think is the best option for Black, had already been played by other versions but unfortunately is no longer played by the most recent versions. Therefore we see that the process of learning has led to worsen their play in this particular case.
I do not think it's a coincidence that the two best versions in my tests 32367 and 32407 play 8 ... h5

In what follows x2 after the version means GTX1060x2 and if the version does not have x2 the GPU was RTX2070. Stockfish 10 played on 6 cores of i7

At 5 minutes plus 1 sec



Lc0201rc2_11261x2_256Balsa5p1 2019

1 Stockfish10x6 +56 +10/=38/-2 58.00% 29.0/50
2 lc0201rc2_11261x2 -56 +2/=38/-10 42.00% 21.0/50

https://sites.google.com/site/unoallavo ... ects=0&d=1



lc0201rc2_11261_256SF10Balsa5p1 2019

1 stockfish_10_x6 +28 +8/=38/-4 54.00% 27.0/50
2 lc0201rc2_11261 -28 +4/=38/-8 46.00% 23.0/50
https://sites.google.com/site/unoallavo ... ects=0&d=1


Lc0_32393SF10x6Balsa25_5p1 2019

1 Lc0201rc1_32393 +27 +9/=36/-5 54.00% 27.0/50
2 Stockfish_10_x64_bmi2 -27 +5/=36/-9 46.00% 23.0/50

https://sites.google.com/site/unoallavo ... ects=0&d=1

At 15 minutes plus 1



lc0201rc1_32409SF10Balsa15p1 2019

1 lc0201rc1_32409 +42 +8/=40/-2 56.00% 28.0/50
2 stockfish_10_x6 -42 +2/=40/-8 44.00% 22.0/50

https://sites.google.com/site/unoallavo ... ects=0&d=1
The love relationship between a chess engine tester and his computer can be summarized in one sentence:
Until heat do us part.

Post Reply