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and chess games against very strong <crippled> opponents...corres wrote:It should have to perceive that the match circumstances during games between A0 and Stockfish is an unimportant thing. The essence is the team of DeepMind have proved they can make a powerful system based on neural networks which can solve such complicated tasks like winning go and chess games against very strong opponents.
Only if Stockfish was "crippled" to such a degree as to no longer be a very strong opponent. Was that the case?pilgrimdan wrote:and chess games against very strong <crippled> opponents...corres wrote:It should have to perceive that the match circumstances during games between A0 and Stockfish is an unimportant thing. The essence is the team of DeepMind have proved they can make a powerful system based on neural networks which can solve such complicated tasks like winning go and chess games against very strong opponents.
that statement is more accurate...
I wonder why you have trouble accepting that the Stockfish that lost the 100-game match is an amazingly strong engine.pilgrimdan wrote:and chess games against very strong <crippled> opponents...corres wrote:It should have to perceive that the match circumstances during games between A0 and Stockfish is an unimportant thing. The essence is the team of DeepMind have proved they can make a powerful system based on neural networks which can solve such complicated tasks like winning go and chess games against very strong opponents.
that statement is more accurate...
Exactly! All this talk about faking games and hiding stuff to impress us is nonsense, they don't even read this or another chess forum and they didn't really care for opening books or endgame tablebases.Evert wrote:They don't give a rat's ass about what "the chess programming community" thinks, they're not trying to build the best and greatest chess playing program. They're trying to build a general AI that can learn to solve complex puzzles (in this case, play games) by re-inforced learning.
Pablo has defeated Stockfish by closing the position and beating it (or rather, a lagging GUI) on the clock.zullil wrote:As far as I know, Stockfish has only been defeated by engines that use alpha-beta (and, of course, by Lyudmil and Pablo).
i really don't care that Stockfish loss in such a maner...zullil wrote:Only if Stockfish was "crippled" to such a degree as to no longer be a very strong opponent. Was that the case?pilgrimdan wrote:and chess games against very strong <crippled> opponents...corres wrote:It should have to perceive that the match circumstances during games between A0 and Stockfish is an unimportant thing. The essence is the team of DeepMind have proved they can make a powerful system based on neural networks which can solve such complicated tasks like winning go and chess games against very strong opponents.
that statement is more accurate...
I do not have trouble accepting that Stockfish lost the 100 game match...syzygy wrote:I wonder why you have trouble accepting that the Stockfish that lost the 100-game match is an amazingly strong engine.pilgrimdan wrote:and chess games against very strong <crippled> opponents...corres wrote:It should have to perceive that the match circumstances during games between A0 and Stockfish is an unimportant thing. The essence is the team of DeepMind have proved they can make a powerful system based on neural networks which can solve such complicated tasks like winning go and chess games against very strong opponents.
that statement is more accurate...
I have not seen this attitude among any of the engine developers (it is possible that I missed one).
No, I cannot explain why that is such a big issue for so many people when it is really just small potatoes.pilgrimdan wrote:I do not have trouble accepting that Stockfish lost the 100 game match...syzygy wrote:I wonder why you have trouble accepting that the Stockfish that lost the 100-game match is an amazingly strong engine.pilgrimdan wrote:and chess games against very strong <crippled> opponents...corres wrote:It should have to perceive that the match circumstances during games between A0 and Stockfish is an unimportant thing. The essence is the team of DeepMind have proved they can make a powerful system based on neural networks which can solve such complicated tasks like winning go and chess games against very strong opponents.
that statement is more accurate...
I have not seen this attitude among any of the engine developers (it is possible that I missed one).
the 'trouble' I am having is why do it under non-optimal conditions...
can you explain that...
There was nothing wrong with the conditions.pilgrimdan wrote:i really don't care that Stockfish loss in such a maner...zullil wrote:Only if Stockfish was "crippled" to such a degree as to no longer be a very strong opponent. Was that the case?pilgrimdan wrote:and chess games against very strong <crippled> opponents...corres wrote:It should have to perceive that the match circumstances during games between A0 and Stockfish is an unimportant thing. The essence is the team of DeepMind have proved they can make a powerful system based on neural networks which can solve such complicated tasks like winning go and chess games against very strong opponents.
that statement is more accurate...
what i care about is why do it with non-optimal conditions...
can somebody explain that...
people are focussed on the wrong metric - it's not the settings, it's not the Sf version used, it's not the time control, -- just look at the games and the moves played by A0 - some of the move played appeared to come from another planet.., consider what they also did with AGo and it's impressive and its believable, it was clearly unexpected and apparently for many people , not believable - something most have been drastically wrong to the point where SF 8 was crippled - why use the word crippled , because the results were over overwhelmingly in favor AO such that SF had to be crippled... it was not done the way many of us would have to like seen it be done , but it is what it is ..I also understand why people feel the way ...it's called emotion. SF is open source , everybody gets it for free, hundreds of people have volunteered either time and money ( time, computers and electricity are not free) and it was and still is the strongest free open source engine available, SF brings a lot of positives to the chess community and people appreciate that it so much such that it has become the favorite son of many chess enthusiasts and rightfully so and then big bad google comes with big bad money, hires a bunch of really big bad smart people, spends a few million on big bad hardware and then blows away the white knight SF , and people get upset ...pilgrimdan wrote:and chess games against very strong <crippled> opponents...corres wrote:It should have to perceive that the match circumstances during games between A0 and Stockfish is an unimportant thing. The essence is the team of DeepMind have proved they can make a powerful system based on neural networks which can solve such complicated tasks like winning go and chess games against very strong opponents.
that statement is more accurate...
