how far is too far: houdini for sell?

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Terry,

each customers of Houdini will be a attorney. People with order Houdini gave here own money. This one have to do with: I am a fan and gave my money.

I think we can't attack this group of users. A commercial engine is available and we can await that a company checked that before selling / marketing.

If not ...
From which position the user should get his information?
Chess fora?

Rybka is commercial available
Houdini is commercial available
I am sure others are commercial available with open sources too.

In my opinion most bad is:

1. Programmers which are not honest
2. Companies which know the problematic and don't check sources.
...
...
...
...
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3. The users which support critical engines.

And yes, much of the users are rebels and fighting with critical engines for some reasons. It's OK, why not. But not really important. Important is point 1 and point 2.

And against point 1 we can nothing do. We can make the World not better. Point two is interesting. I can't understand ChessOK because I know Victor, I know Sergei and both are very honest people in my opinion.

Best
Frank

[Frank Quisinsky]

What I will say is ...
This one is a programmer war, supported now by companies. The programmers gave his sources for free or not, not the users of chess engines.

But each of the users should thinking about it ...
What I will support in the future?
So many interesting programs are available.

I wrote often in chess fora ...
Commercial chess is very important, free chess is very important. But if I look what our commercial companies do in such situation I lost blind trust.

So my opinion:
The Open Letter was very bad for 12 different reasons, I wrote in one of my answers. I think the programmers should thinking in a group, how we can make the situation better at first with her own programs and information they give to users in readme and so on.

All is a bit animation for programmers too because the only right answere can be only give on the chessboard.

[S.Taylor]

I thought there was considerable evidence that houdini was a close derivative of rybka. Now it is for sell? Whatever your view of rybka (legal or derivitive), there is 0 doubt about Houdini being unoriginal. sigh.

If only we could see a return of crafty to number 1, or the program of any honest programmer.

Plagiarism rewarded.

Best
J

I did not buy houdini but I see no problem with buying non original programs.

Ok to buy "stolen merchandise" as well? I mean, YOU didn't actually steal it...
Wait, you might get charged with "receiving stolen merchandise" anyway... "caveat emptor".

Don't give us the BS about you not having anything against Robert Houdart. It is clear why you took the thread down after Roger said the thread could stay up.

"I don't even KNOW him, so there is no way to like/dislike him".

But you know him well enough to suggest he stole code......

Bob you think he stole code. So you will use your power as moderator to punish him. Even if this means overriding the other moderators .... Yes or No?

Your actions say YES.

From the charter:
Once a member gains access to the message board, he may read all messages and post new or response messages with the proviso that these new or response messages:
........................................................ Are not flagrant commercial exhortations.

It was a logical step to combine the best GUI (Aquarium) with the strongest engine (Houdini), Houdini Aquarium is the result.

As there is no more evidence that Aquarium is “the best GUI” than there is that Pepsi is the best Cola, when either claim is made by the manufacturer, it can be classified in the “flagrant commercial exhortations” category

Houdini Aquarium is available at a (in my opinion) very attractive price,

This is an advertising statement, how else can it be classified, when made by the manufacturer? As such, it also falls within the category of "flagrant commercial exhortations".

I know of no no other hobby in which you can obtain the world's best for so little money.

What he admits to be his opinion is tendentious and when made by the manufacturer of the product, can only be considered to be an advertisement that, once again, falls within the category of “flagrant commercial exhortations”.

Three flagrant exhortations within a 5 sentence announcement. A bit rich.

Roger Brown the moderator had already ruled on the above and said Robert Houdart had not done anything that other programmers has not done on CCC. And the post could stay up.

Roger is moderator only not an advacate against Houdini.

The fact is Bob Hyatt is a strong advacate against houdini and is clearly bias against Houdini and Robert Houdart. So he used his power as moderator to try and punish Robert Houdart. Over the ruling of moderator Roger Brown.....

I note that you don’t dispute my analysis. I am perfectly capable of taking an objective view of Houdart's behaviour and I would also have wanted to remove his thread, on the basis of that analysis. As a mod on CTF, I saw the PM that Hyatt sent to Roger Brown referring to the issue and there was nothing wrong with it. The last time that I looked at page 2 of CCC, the thread in question was back in place, albeit locked.

Perhaps you should take an objective look at your own outpourings over the last 48 hours.

WOW!
Moderators can see PM's?
I was once told that not!

[Graham Banks]

WOW!
Moderators can see PM's?
I was once told that not!

They can't see the PMs of other members unless they know your password and they can't see your password because it shows as ****** .

[Rebel]

At least Houdini's author bothers to answer and communicate every now and then....Vasik was silent like a dead rotten fish....

But eventually gave up, like Robert will do.

Vas never started, so he could not "eventually give up."

He did at his own forum, sick and tired of the ongoing accusations. Not everybody is like you, some people do resign, I can't blame them.

[Roger Brown]

WOW!
Moderators can see PM's?
I was once told that not!

Hello S. Taylor, Members generally,

The mods definitely cannot see PM's between members.

What Dr. Hyatt, myself and KI (and the other moderators would see) saw was a complaint sent about a particular thread.

All moderators see complaints when they log in as specially coloured text at the bottom of their screen.

I hope that this information helps.

Later.

[Rebel]

I simply state facts. You are EXACTLY in the same boat as the few remaining Rybka fans. Sorry that you don't like FACTS, but fact is, houdini is based on Robolito. Ton of evidence to support that, more coming each day. Learn to live with it, because it is NOT going away...

You are fighting a phantom that can't be defeated. 2009 (ippo, robo) became the deathblow for fair competition.

In this light I can understand the decision of the ICGA to keep rule #2 straight up although voluntarily degrading the yearly WC as a second division tournament.

[georgerifkin]

I simply state facts. You are EXACTLY in the same boat as the few remaining Rybka fans. Sorry that you don't like FACTS, but fact is, houdini is based on Robolito. Ton of evidence to support that, more coming each day. Learn to live with it, because it is NOT going away...

You are fighting a phantom that can't be defeated. 2009 (ippo, robo) became the deathblow for fair competition.

In this light I can understand the decision of the ICGA to keep rule #2 straight up although voluntarily degrading the yearly WC as a second division tournament.

mr schroeder will there ever be a new version of pro deo? or perhaps rebel?

[Thomas Mayer]

I simply state facts. You are EXACTLY in the same boat as the few remaining Rybka fans. Sorry that you don't like FACTS, but fact is, houdini is based on Robolito. Ton of evidence to support that, more coming each day. Learn to live with it, because it is NOT going away...

You are fighting a phantom that can't be defeated. 2009 (ippo, robo) became the deathblow for fair competition.

In this light I can understand the decision of the ICGA to keep rule #2 straight up although voluntarily degrading the yearly WC as a second division tournament.

Hi Ed,

whereas I have hope that this might change in the future again. What is the CSVN thinking about rule #2 ? And what are you thinking ? Just want to ask because I am currently not sure about that.

Greets, Thomas

[S.Taylor]

WOW!
Moderators can see PM's?
I was once told that not!

Hello S. Taylor, Members generally,

The mods definitely cannot see PM's between members.

What Dr. Hyatt, myself and KI (and the other moderators would see) saw was a complaint sent about a particular thread.

All moderators see complaints when they log in as specially coloured text at the bottom of their screen.

I hope that this information helps.

Later.

Thanks, Roger and Graham.