Differences between Shredder12 and Shredder Classic 4?

[Volker Pittlik]

There is a demo version of Shredder Classic 4 on the Shredder website. It says it is

...a slightly restricted test version of the world champion chess program... .

Does anyone know what this restrictions in comparison to Shredder 12 are? I'm only interested in the engine, especially in playing strength when using one core only.

tia

vp

[IWB]

Hello Volker

There is a demo version of Shredder Classic 4 on the Shredder website. It says it is

...a slightly restricted test version of the world champion chess program... .

Does anyone know what this restrictions in comparison to Shredder 12 are? I'm only interested in the engine, especially in playing strength when using one core only.

tia

vp

The Classic 4 engine is on my list to be tested. Actually I have not a single game played, but out of some "estimations" I think it is about 200 Elo below S12 which is basically Shredder 10 strength (or Spike 1.2). Again, the next time I am testing an Engine it will be most likely Shredder Classic 4.
Maybe I have a number ofter the weekend

Bye
Ingo

[Volker Pittlik]

Hello Volker...Actually I have not a single game played, but out of some "estimations" I think it is about 200 Elo below S12 which is basically Shredder 10 strength (or Spike 1.2). ...

After the impressive number of 32 blitz games it seems to be a pretty strong program:

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Rank Name                  Elo    +    - games score oppo. draws 
   1 Stockfish 1.5.1       311   58   54   124   81%    81   31% 
   2 Stockfish 1.5         228   79   78    46   53%   207   37% 
   3 Stockfish 1.4         225   54   50   158   81%   -26   23% 
   4 Rybka 2.2n2 32-bit    207   31   31   410   73%    18   23% 
   5 ShredderClassic4      193   98   93    32   64%   100   41% 
   6 Fruit 05/11/03        143   32   31   364   68%    -2   27% 
   7 Crafty-23.0            97   44   43   182   59%    24   30% 
   8 Spike 1.2 Turin        90   31   30   364   62%     4   30% 
   9 Scorpio_2.2 ACCA       12   69   70    70   43%    65   37% 

to less games, to less time, I know... In poker I call with much worse chances to be right.

vp

[Trahald]

The restrictions in the demo version are more to do with what you can do with the interface than any limitations with the engine AFAIK.

For instance you cannot save games or export opening books with the demo version. As far as the difference between the Shredder 12 and Shredder Classic 4 engines goes, I think the only difference is in the speed of it's calculation. The website claims that the Classic engine has exactly the same 'knowledge' as it's bigger brothers.

Just how great the loss in speed is, I have no idea. Additionally neither the classic version or shredder includes a 64 bit engine or MP support. That only comes with Deep Shreddder.

[IWB]

Hello

Maybe 1000 games 6 + 3 with 1 Thread and ponder on are more impressive.

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    Program                          Elo    +   -   Games   Score   Av.Op.  Draws

 1 Rybka 3 1T                     : 2826   10  10  3600    75.9 %   2627   32.2 %
 2 Rybka 3 1T 32-bit              : 2768   14  14  1700    67.7 %   2639   35.7 %
 3 Deep Shredder 12               : 2723   14  14  1600    64.1 %   2622   36.5 %
 4 Rybka 2.3.2a                   : 2717    6   6  8900    62.5 %   2629   39.3 %
 5 Deep Shredder 12 UCI 32-bit    : 2715   14  14  1600    63.1 %   2622   37.5 %
 6 Naum 4                         : 2695    7   7  6100    54.8 %   2662   40.5 %
 7 Rybka 1.2f                     : 2669    6   6  8000    64.1 %   2568   33.8 %
 8 Fritz 12 32-bit                : 2647   16  16  1100    51.4 %   2638   41.3 %
 9 Deep Fritz 11 32-bit           : 2636   14  14  1500    55.9 %   2595   38.6 %
10 Stockfish 1.4 JA               : 2624   13  13  1800    49.1 %   2630   37.9 %
11 Shredder Bonn 1T 32-bit        : 2622   10  10  3000    50.8 %   2616   40.0 %
12 Zappa Mexico II                : 2620    6   6  8900    46.4 %   2645   40.2 %
13 Deep Shredder 11               : 2600    9   9  3700    52.1 %   2586   39.4 %
14 Onno-1-1-1                     : 2598   12  12  1800    47.1 %   2618   40.3 %
15 Rybka 1.0 Beta                 : 2595   11  11  2500    53.2 %   2573   36.3 %
16 Naum 3.1                       : 2589    7   7  5600    47.8 %   2605   38.9 %
17 Onno-1-0-0                     : 2585   13  13  1600    44.9 %   2620   39.9 %
18 Deep Sjeng WC2008              : 2577    7   7  6000    38.6 %   2658   35.5 %
19 Toga II 1.4 beta5c BB          : 2571    6   6  8400    39.1 %   2648   37.8 %
20 Hiarcs 12.1 MP 32-bit          : 2567    6   6  9500    38.4 %   2649   37.0 %
21 Deep Sjeng 3.0                 : 2563   10  10  3200    41.0 %   2626   33.8 %
22 Shredder Classic 4             : 2550   17  17  1000    49.5 %   2553   37.8 %
23 Glaurung 2.2 JA                : 2548    8   8  5600    34.3 %   2661   33.6 %
24 Naum 2.2                       : 2542   10  10  2700    43.5 %   2588   42.9 %
25 Rybka 1.0 Beta 32-bit          : 2541    8   8  4500    50.0 %   2541   33.4 %
26 HIARCS 11.2 32-bit             : 2535    7   7  6600    45.5 %   2566   36.3 %
27 Fruit 05/11/03 32-bit          : 2532    5   5 10400    36.0 %   2632   36.9 %
28 DS 10 Balmung                  : 2529   10  10  2600    49.9 %   2530   42.5 %
29 LoopMP 12.32 32-bit            : 2524    7   7  5600    44.7 %   2561   34.7 %
30 Loop 13.5 32-bit               : 2523    8   8  4700    43.4 %   2569   37.0 %
31 Toga II 1.2.1a                 : 2519    7   7  6600    46.6 %   2542   35.2 %
32 ListMP 11.64b                  : 2516   12  12  2200    44.0 %   2558   35.9 %
33 Glaurung 2.1                   : 2509   19  19   900    42.7 %   2560   33.9 %
34 Deep Shredder 10               : 2506    5   5 12300    35.3 %   2611   33.9 %
35 HIARCS 11 MP 32-bit            : 2505   19  19   800    44.9 %   2540   36.4 %
36 Naum 2.1                       : 2504    9   9  3700    44.6 %   2542   36.4 %
37 Toga II 1.3x4                  : 2497   19  19   800    44.6 %   2535   38.9 %
38 Spike 1.2 Turin 32-bit         : 2480    5   5 13800    32.1 %   2610   33.0 %
39 Deep Shredder 9.02             : 2465   16  16  1400    37.9 %   2551   29.1 %
40 Deep Sjeng 2.7                 : 2453   13  13  2000    31.2 %   2591   33.1 %
41 Glaurung 2-epsilon/5           : 2445   16  16  1300    34.8 %   2554   30.9 %
42 Deep Sjeng 2.5                 : 2385   20  20   900    29.9 %   2533   30.6 %

So 165 Elo belo the 32bit Shredder 12.

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SC 4                      : 2550  1000 (+306,=378,-316), 49.5 %

Zappa Mexico II x64 1T        : 100 (+ 18,= 38,- 44), 37.0 %
Deep Shredder 10 x64 1T       : 100 (+ 34,= 37,- 29), 52.5 %
Spike 1.2 Turin               : 100 (+ 41,= 33,- 26), 57.5 %
Fruit 05/11/03                : 100 (+ 37,= 44,- 19), 59.0 %
H12.1 MP 1T                   : 100 (+ 24,= 43,- 33), 45.5 %
Toga II 1.4 beta5c BB         : 100 (+ 31,= 36,- 33), 49.0 %
Rybka 1.0 Beta 32-bit         : 100 (+ 34,= 39,- 27), 53.5 %
DSjeng WC2008 x64 1T          : 100 (+ 25,= 40,- 35), 45.0 %
Glaurung 2.2 JA 1T            : 100 (+ 36,= 37,- 27), 54.5 %
Onno-1-1-1 x64                : 100 (+ 26,= 31,- 43), 41.5 %

Not too bad acually.

Bye
Ingo