Howdy,
LearningLemming has been off and on ICC for a couple years now without a learning reset, and has played A LOT of engine - engine matches...probably 100+ against a number of engines including multiple crafty's, tinker, arasan, amateur, telepath, multiple rybka's, and more). I would be interested if I could get anyone who has been involved in these matches (author or operator of opposing program, or observer) to give me a little feedback if possible on how the learned "book" is going. This is a completely unscientific poll, I am just looking for gut feel.
1. Do you think the "book" has been getting better of the months/years?
2. Do you think the results against your engine (or other engines or humans) is getting better in part because of its "book" is improving its play against your book?
3. Do you think Lemming is getting on average an advantage, disadvantage, or neutral position when you both exit book?
4. Is your program or Lemming getting a time advantage on average by one of the programs exiting book early?
5. Do you think the learning is overly specific to your book, and if you switched to a random book your results would improve?
6. Anything else that comes to mind.
Anyone who has played or watched or looked at results of LearningLemming games on ICC is encouraged to respond.
-Sam
Lemming Poll
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
-
- Posts: 20943
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:30 pm
- Location: Birmingham, AL
Re: Lemming Poll
I have not paid any attention at all. We have been re-writing Crafty's eval to use the "fruit interpolation" method in order to get a feel for how that works. As a result, I have not paid any attention at all to results on ICC except for the rare occasions where I am on and watch a game in progress. If you want to set up a time to play a few games where I can actually watch, I'd be willing, and could try to make sure I have a reasonably sane version running. I always take the most recent changes and run on ICC whether they have been tested on the cluster or not...BubbaTough wrote:Howdy,
LearningLemming has been off and on ICC for a couple years now without a learning reset, and has played A LOT of engine - engine matches...probably 100+ against a number of engines including multiple crafty's, tinker, arasan, amateur, telepath, multiple rybka's, and more). I would be interested if I could get anyone who has been involved in these matches (author or operator of opposing program, or observer) to give me a little feedback if possible on how the learned "book" is going. This is a completely unscientific poll, I am just looking for gut feel.
1. Do you think the "book" has been getting better of the months/years?
2. Do you think the results against your engine (or other engines or humans) is getting better in part because of its "book" is improving its play against your book?
3. Do you think Lemming is getting on average an advantage, disadvantage, or neutral position when you both exit book?
4. Is your program or Lemming getting a time advantage on average by one of the programs exiting book early?
5. Do you think the learning is overly specific to your book, and if you switched to a random book your results would improve?
6. Anything else that comes to mind.
Anyone who has played or watched or looked at results of LearningLemming games on ICC is encouraged to respond.
-Sam
-
- Posts: 1154
- Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:18 am
Re: Lemming Poll
Hey, thanks for the offer! LearningLemming is on ICC right now, and is set for autorematch. It should be on for the next few days hopefully without interruption. It sounds like you won't be able to answer much in terms of how its been progressing long term, but some feedback on whether it is getting decent positions, and whether it is getting on average and advantage or disadvantage against your book sounds possible and helpful. Though I guess that type of feedback is somewhat relevant to long term progress since assumably when LearningLemming had a book with 0 moves in it we can assume it was inferior in most ways....I have not paid any attention at all. We have been re-writing Crafty's eval to use the "fruit interpolation" method in order to get a feel for how that works. As a result, I have not paid any attention at all to results on ICC except for the rare occasions where I am on and watch a game in progress. If you want to set up a time to play a few games where I can actually watch, I'd be willing, and could try to make sure I have a reasonably sane version running. I always take the most recent changes and run on ICC whether they have been tested on the cluster or not...
-Sam
-
- Posts: 1154
- Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:18 am
Re: Lemming Poll
Timea and TwistedLogic have been playing marathon matches on ICC with LearningLemming recently...hopefully to develop comments for this thread?
-Sam
-Sam
-
- Posts: 1808
- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:19 pm
- Location: Oslo, Norway
Re: Lemming Poll
What's the "fruit interpolation method"?bob wrote:We have been re-writing Crafty's eval to use the "fruit interpolation" method in order to get a feel for how that works.
Tord
-
- Posts: 1922
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:51 am
- Location: Earth
Re: Lemming Poll
The same as the "Glaurung interpolation method".Tord Romstad wrote:What's the "fruit interpolation method"?
Tord
That is, keeping an opening and endgame evaluation and interpolating between them based on the phase. I use it too, but I don't really like it. When I get around to rewriting my eval, I'm planning on interpolating for individual eval terms that need it, but keeping the overall eval clean with just one score.
-
- Posts: 20943
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:30 pm
- Location: Birmingham, AL
Re: Lemming Poll
score = (ph * mgscore + (62 - ph) * egscore) / 62Tord Romstad wrote:What's the "fruit interpolation method"?bob wrote:We have been re-writing Crafty's eval to use the "fruit interpolation" method in order to get a feel for how that works.
Tord
where ph is a number between 0 and 62 and reflects the material point count on the board (31 is all pieces (pawns execluded) for one side.
-
- Posts: 1808
- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:19 pm
- Location: Oslo, Norway
Re: Lemming Poll
Aha!Zach Wegner wrote:The same as the "Glaurung interpolation method".Tord Romstad wrote:What's the "fruit interpolation method"?
Tord
That is, keeping an opening and endgame evaluation and interpolating between them based on the phase.
That technique doesn't deserve to be named after Fruit or Glaurung, because it was common and widespread long before both programs existed. I know that Phalanx used it back in the last millennium, and I am sure you can find many earlier examples.
Tord
-
- Posts: 1922
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:51 am
- Location: Earth
Re: Lemming Poll
Of course. Check the wiki.Tord Romstad wrote:Aha!Zach Wegner wrote:The same as the "Glaurung interpolation method".Tord Romstad wrote:What's the "fruit interpolation method"?
Tord
That is, keeping an opening and endgame evaluation and interpolating between them based on the phase.
That technique doesn't deserve to be named after Fruit or Glaurung, because it was common and widespread long before both programs existed. I know that Phalanx used it back in the last millennium, and I am sure you can find many earlier examples.
Tord
http://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Tapered+Eval
http://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/ ... al/4123771