On-line engine blitz tourney November

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Joost Buijs
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On-line engine blitz tourney November

Post by Joost Buijs » Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:16 am

The monthly on-line engine blitz tourney for November will take place on:

Saturday November 14, 2:00 PM EST (Boston time), 20:00 CET (Amsterdam time)

To connect:

winboard -zp -ics -icshost nightmare-chess.nl -icshelper timeseal -fcp ENGINE.exe -fd ENGINEFOLDER -autoKibitz

(for UCI engines, add -fUCI)

People without a server account can submit a request for a (new) account to admin@nightmare-chess.nl

9 rounds 5/1, our tournament manager will be: Eendje (Lisebeth) from ICC

Joost Buijs
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Re: On-line engine blitz tourney November

Post by Joost Buijs » Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:33 pm

It was fun as usual! At least I think it was fun.

Schooner clearly ended first place, my guess is that he added NNUE like many others are lately doing.
Belfish ended second, no surprise here. Marvin seems to have made a lot of progress and ended third.

Code: Select all

:Tourney Players: Round 9 of 9 
:
:     Name              Rating Score Perfrm Upset  Results 
:     ----------------- ------ ----- ------ ------ ------- 
:  1 +Schooner          [2912]  7.5  [2995] [  46] +10b +08w =05w +03b =02w +04w +12b +07w =06b 
:  2 +BelFish           [3005]  7.0  [2934] [   0] +15w +07w =04b +05w =01b =06w +09b =03w +12b 
:  3 +Marvin            [2747]  6.5  [2809] [ 202] +23w =12w +09b -01w +11b +13w =04b =02b +14w 
:  4 +ArasanX           [2893]  6.0  [2847] [  56] +11b +13w =02w =06b +14w -01b =03w +12w =05b 
:  5 +WaspX             [2832]  6.0  [2859] [  70] +18w +14w =01b -02b +13w =07b =06b +08w =04w 
:  6 +NightmareX        [2822]  6.0  [2825] [ 176] +16w =09w =12b =04w +08b =02b =05w +14b =01w 
:  7 +Goldbar           [2717]  5.5  [2670] [  57] +17w -02b +11w =12w +18b =05w +13b -01b =09w 
:  8 +TheBaron          [2649]  5.0  [2560] [   0] +19b -01b +18w -10b -06w +11w +15b -05b +13w
:  9 +atomNightmare     [2559]  5.0  [2542] [ 210] +22w =06b -03w -13b +17b +10w -02w +19b =07b 
: 10 +Nemeton           [2343]  5.0  [2515] [ 342] -01w +19w +17b +08w -12b -09b +18w -13w +15b 
: 11 +rpiArminius       [2306]  5.0  [2414] [   0] -04w +20b -07b +23w -03w -08b +24b +22w +19w 
: 12 +atomGoldbar       [2549]  4.5  [2664] [ 383] +24w =03b =06w =07b +10w +14b -01w -04b -02w 
: 13 +WaDuuttie         [2645]  4.0  [2520] [   0] +20w -04b +16w +09w -05b -03b -07w +10b -08b 
: 14 +Arminius          [2613]  4.0  [2467] [   0] +21w -05b +23w +15b -04b -12w +20b -06w -03b 
: 15 +Jumbo             [2379]  4.0  [2328] [   0] -02b =17w +21b -14w =23b +16w -08w +20b -10w 
: 16 +CTdccc            [2217]  4.0  [2212] [  61] -06b +22w -13b -17w +24b -15b -19w +18b +21w
: 17 +Joker             [2144]  4.0  [2207] [ 190] -07b =15b -10w +16b -09w -19b +21w =24w +22b 
: 18 +Barbarossa        [2278]  3.5  [2252] [   0] -05b +21w -08b +20w -07w +23b -10b -16w =24b 
: 19 +Isa               [2126]  3.5  [2170] [ 109] -08w -10b =22b +21w -20b +17w +16b -09w -11b 
: 20 +feligres          [2123]  3.5  [2179] [  44] -13b -11w +24b -18b +19w +22b -14w -15w =23b 
: 21 +KingSlayer        [2055]  3.0  [2069] [ 150] -14b -18b -15w -19b +22w +24w -17b +23w -16b 
: 22 +microMax          [1937]  2.5  [2007] [ 362] -09b -16b =19w +24w -21b -20w +23w -11b -17w 
: 23 +Spartacus         [2205]  2.0  [2040] [  87] -03b +24w -14b -11b =15w -18w -22b -21b =20w 
: 24 +atomSargonI       [1930]  1.0  [1890] [ 281] -12b -23b -20w -22b -16w -21b -11w =17b =18w

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Re: On-line engine blitz tourney November

Post by D Sceviour » Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:24 pm

This is the second time Schooner has won the monthly on-line tournament. The only change made since the last month was to reduce the hash usage size in the settings. Previously, I used 4 Gb / 8 threads for 512 Mb / thread. This was cut in half to 2 GB total usage, not including pawn hash. The smaller hash size seems to produce a faster access on my machine and there was a noticeable improvement in depth.

Bob Hyatt had once produced a formula to maximize hash usage. I remember experimenting with this some time ago but it is not installed in the latest versions of Crafty. It is not really necessary. The only important thing to remember is that too much hash size can be a bad thing.

I have been experimenting with NNUE but not with this tournament. The NNUE results so far have been disappointing. It may be some time before re-considering NNUE use (if ever).

Here are the Schooner games for the November 14, 2020 tournament:

Joost Buijs
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Re: On-line engine blitz tourney November

Post by Joost Buijs » Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:26 am

In the past Nightmare won the tournament a few times too, in a tournament with such a small number of rounds you also need a bit of luck to get a good ranking.

This time Nightmare had two draws against atomGoldbar and atomNightmare, these engines use the same book and the same evaluation function, this makes a draw very likely even with a 100 fold speed difference. Goldbar is a Nightmare derivative written in Pascal maintained by Bart Goldhoorn and partly by me.

The slowdown with hash >2GB is something that I see over here too, basically due to pressure on the TLB, allocating the hash-table in large page memory helps a lot to reduce the slowdown, this is what I default do (if the OS allows it).

Do you use separate hash-tables for each thread? Probably not, I use separate pawn hash-tables, the main hash-table is shared between all threads otherwise it wouldn't be very useful.

I've not been looking at NNUE at all, it does not seem very difficult to write code for inference, however producing data to train the NN, writing software to train it and getting the NN properly trained is very time consuming. I guess most people grab their data from internet and use py-torch or tensorflow to train the network.

I'm thinking about some small networks for specific things like pawn structure and king-safety, it's my feeling that this would already help quite a lot.

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Re: On-line engine blitz tourney November

Post by Madeleine Birchfield » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:16 am

Joost Buijs wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:26 am
I've not been looking at NNUE at all, it does not seem very difficult to write code for inference, however producing data to train the NN, writing software to train it and getting the NN properly trained is very time consuming. I guess most people grab their data from internet and use py-torch or tensorflow to train the network.

I'm thinking about some small networks for specific things like pawn structure and king-safety, it's my feeling that this would already help quite a lot.
Coming up with a good evaluation function has always been the hardest and most time consuming part of an engine, whether that be training a neural network, or coming up with new terms for a handcrafted evaluation and tuning it.

chrisw
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Re: On-line engine blitz tourney November

Post by chrisw » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:11 pm

Joost Buijs wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:33 pm
It was fun as usual! At least I think it was fun.

Schooner clearly ended first place, my guess is that he added NNUE like many others are lately doing.
Belfish ended second, no surprise here. Marvin seems to have made a lot of progress and ended third.

Code: Select all

:Tourney Players: Round 9 of 9 
:
:     Name              Rating Score Perfrm Upset  Results 
:     ----------------- ------ ----- ------ ------ ------- 
:  1 +Schooner          [2912]  7.5  [2995] [  46] +10b +08w =05w +03b =02w +04w +12b +07w =06b 
:  2 +BelFish           [3005]  7.0  [2934] [   0] +15w +07w =04b +05w =01b =06w +09b =03w +12b 
:  3 +Marvin            [2747]  6.5  [2809] [ 202] +23w =12w +09b -01w +11b +13w =04b =02b +14w 
:  4 +ArasanX           [2893]  6.0  [2847] [  56] +11b +13w =02w =06b +14w -01b =03w +12w =05b 
:  5 +WaspX             [2832]  6.0  [2859] [  70] +18w +14w =01b -02b +13w =07b =06b +08w =04w 
:  6 +NightmareX        [2822]  6.0  [2825] [ 176] +16w =09w =12b =04w +08b =02b =05w +14b =01w 
:  7 +Goldbar           [2717]  5.5  [2670] [  57] +17w -02b +11w =12w +18b =05w +13b -01b =09w 
:  8 +TheBaron          [2649]  5.0  [2560] [   0] +19b -01b +18w -10b -06w +11w +15b -05b +13w
:  9 +atomNightmare     [2559]  5.0  [2542] [ 210] +22w =06b -03w -13b +17b +10w -02w +19b =07b 
: 10 +Nemeton           [2343]  5.0  [2515] [ 342] -01w +19w +17b +08w -12b -09b +18w -13w +15b 
: 11 +rpiArminius       [2306]  5.0  [2414] [   0] -04w +20b -07b +23w -03w -08b +24b +22w +19w 
: 12 +atomGoldbar       [2549]  4.5  [2664] [ 383] +24w =03b =06w =07b +10w +14b -01w -04b -02w 
: 13 +WaDuuttie         [2645]  4.0  [2520] [   0] +20w -04b +16w +09w -05b -03b -07w +10b -08b 
: 14 +Arminius          [2613]  4.0  [2467] [   0] +21w -05b +23w +15b -04b -12w +20b -06w -03b 
: 15 +Jumbo             [2379]  4.0  [2328] [   0] -02b =17w +21b -14w =23b +16w -08w +20b -10w 
: 16 +CTdccc            [2217]  4.0  [2212] [  61] -06b +22w -13b -17w +24b -15b -19w +18b +21w
: 17 +Joker             [2144]  4.0  [2207] [ 190] -07b =15b -10w +16b -09w -19b +21w =24w +22b 
: 18 +Barbarossa        [2278]  3.5  [2252] [   0] -05b +21w -08b +20w -07w +23b -10b -16w =24b 
: 19 +Isa               [2126]  3.5  [2170] [ 109] -08w -10b =22b +21w -20b +17w +16b -09w -11b 
: 20 +feligres          [2123]  3.5  [2179] [  44] -13b -11w +24b -18b +19w +22b -14w -15w =23b 
: 21 +KingSlayer        [2055]  3.0  [2069] [ 150] -14b -18b -15w -19b +22w +24w -17b +23w -16b 
: 22 +microMax          [1937]  2.5  [2007] [ 362] -09b -16b =19w +24w -21b -20w +23w -11b -17w 
: 23 +Spartacus         [2205]  2.0  [2040] [  87] -03b +24w -14b -11b =15w -18w -22b -21b =20w 
: 24 +atomSargonI       [1930]  1.0  [1890] [ 281] -12b -23b -20w -22b -16w -21b -11w =17b =18w
I managed to completely miss this, second time it happened, only noticed the thread late Saturday. Shame, would have liked to have been there. Will pay more attention next time.

Joost Buijs
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Re: On-line engine blitz tourney November

Post by Joost Buijs » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:36 pm

chrisw wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:11 pm
I managed to completely miss this, second time it happened, only noticed the thread late Saturday. Shame, would have liked to have been there. Will pay more attention next time.
Next time I will notify you personally. In the past there used to be ~40 participants, the last half year it's 24 max.

By the end of the month there is Charles Roberson's ACCA rapid tournament, yet 7 participants, nowadays most people are only interested in shows like TCEC and CCCC.

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Re: On-line engine blitz tourney November

Post by hgm » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:45 pm

All the Raspberry Pi participants have disappeared. There were a lost of those.

Joost Buijs
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Re: On-line engine blitz tourney November

Post by Joost Buijs » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:06 pm

hgm wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:45 pm
All the Raspberry Pi participants have disappeared. There were a lost of those.
Indeed, of course the PI engines of Marcel are missing since his passing, the PI engines of Folkert are missing too. At the moment Volker Annuss is the only one with his PI engine permanently online.

This is why I always keep a few engines running on a single core Intel atom which gives about the same performance as the RPI3 (between 0.5 and 1.0 mnps). It is also very handy to have a few engines permanently online for testing purposes.

The server runs under a Hyper-V virtual machine on a 6 core Intel machine, unfortunately the server software is not multi threaded, with a lot of participants (especially when it has to start a new series of games) it gets rather slow.

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Re: On-line engine blitz tourney November

Post by D Sceviour » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:38 pm

Joost Buijs wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:26 am
The slowdown with hash >2GB is something that I see over here too, basically due to pressure on the TLB, allocating the hash-table in large page memory helps a lot to reduce the slowdown, this is what I default do (if the OS allows it).

Do you use separate hash-tables for each thread? Probably not, I use separate pawn hash-tables, the main hash-table is shared between all threads otherwise it wouldn't be very useful.
Schooner uses a shared hash table. I meant that the total amount for hash size is calculated as a linear increase with the number of threads = 256 Mb x number of threads.

I am using Windows 10 Home edition which apparently disallows large page settings. This has to be set in the Group Policy Editor "gpedit.msc", but the use of gpedit is supposed to be only allowed in the Professional edition of Windows 10. Is the Windows upgrade really worth it? grrr. :evil:

Another alternative is to use Linux for large pages. This is supposed to be easier. However the version of Ubuntu I use is packed with restrictions on viewing folders. It seems like an endless battle with these new operating systems.

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