How many elo gain a good Opening book have on Stockfish?

[Chessqueen]

You could probably find out what is the elo gain on Stockfish with Opening versus Stockfish without an Opening book by having Stockfish Engine A play without an Opening book while engine B play with a solid opening book up to 10 moves versus AS or AllieStein v 0.5 without an Opening book. What do you think the difference in Elo would be after 1000 games played by both with and without opening book ? more than 50 elo or less ?

PS: If AllieStein v 0.5 play Chess960 versus Stockfish it will most likely lose since it has NOT trained in Chess960 and Opening book has NOT been created for chess960, but playing versus stockfish in standard or normal chess without Opening I would bet on Alliestein v 0.5 after 1000 games.
https://tcec.chessdom.com/live.html

[Dann Corbit]

Seat runs book tournaments to determine the answer to your question.

[PK]

There is an awful lot of difference between opening books. I participated once in Sedat's tournament, and Rodent's book has been badly beaten. But the real question is, what book is used against Allie - general one, or anti-Allie.

[jdart]

It probably depends on whether you are talking about self-play or play against an opponent.

The draw rate in self-play (Stockfish vs. Stockfish) is very high. The openings matter less than you might think. Stockfish is pretty good at drawing at least even from somewhat inferior positions. So Stockfish book + Stockfish no book might be more even than you would suspect.

But a good book vs. bad book, especially when the same engine is not playing both sides, can be pretty lopsided. Books make a difference there.

--Jon

[Chessqueen]

There is an awful lot of difference between opening books. I participated once in Sedat's tournament, and Rodent's book has been badly beaten. But the real question is, what book is used against Allie - general one, or anti-Allie.

That is interesting to know. You mean that if LC0 or Alliestein is doing great versus Stockfish they can search all the opening that those two engines do well and bad and build an Anti LC0 or Anti-Alliestein opening after let say a 4 or 5 moves list of openings. In that case Stockfish programmers can also look at all the games that LC0 played versus stockfish from Zero move or with no opening moves and create an effective counter set of opening moves to avoid losing against LC0 and Komodo can also do the same. That is NOT fair

[Dann Corbit]

There is an awful lot of difference between opening books. I participated once in Sedat's tournament, and Rodent's book has been badly beaten. But the real question is, what book is used against Allie - general one, or anti-Allie.

That is interesting to know. You mean that if LC0 or Alliestein is doing great versus Stockfish they can search all the opening that those two engines do well and bad and build an Anti LC0 or Anti-Alliestein opening after let say a 4 or 5 moves list of openings. In that case Stockfish programmers can also look at all the games that LC0 played versus stockfish from Zero move or with no opening moves and create an effective counter set of opening moves to avoid losing against LC0 and Komodo can also do the same. That is NOT fair

Books which exploit engine problems are a great service. You can analyze the losing positions to improve your engine.
In this contest, the best book was 90 Elo stronger than last place:
https://sites.google.com/site/computers ... book-cs-25
But this contest is especially interesting because it shows the difference between the best books and no book at all:
https://sites.google.com/site/computers ... book-cs-23
About 110 Elo.