On-line engine blitz tourney August

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Sven
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Re: On-line engine blitz tourney August

Post by Sven » Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:55 pm

Jumbo seems to have some tablebase problem, in round 5 against rpiArminius it played a horrible blunder in this simple position (would even be simple without EGTB):

59...Kg5??

The good news: I can reproduce the bug so there is hope to find the reason and fix it.
Sven Schüle (engine author: Jumbo, KnockOut, Surprise)

jwes
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Re: On-line engine blitz tourney August

Post by jwes » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:26 pm

hgm wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:21 pm

Code: Select all

:Tourney Players: Round 9 of 9 
:
:     Name              Rating Score Perfrm Upset  Results 
:     ----------------- ------ ----- ------ ------ ------- 
:  1 +LeelaZero         [1971]  13.0  [2234] [ 182] +16w +12w +04b +07b +06w =02b =03b +11w +08w 
:  2 -Berta             [1991]  11.5  [2080] [  56] =13w +05b =06w +12w +14b =01w =08b =03w +11b 
:  3 +WaspX             [2002]  11.0  [2031] [  49] =04w =08b +13w +14w =05b +07b =01w =02b =06b 
:  4 -Schooner          [1762]  11.0  [2049] [ 826] =03b +15w -01w =11b +10w =06b +07w =05w +12b 
:  5 +RofChade          [1729]  10.5  [1980] [ 790] =11b -02w +27w +10b =03w +12b =06w =04b =07w 
:  6 +ArasanX           [2093]  10.0  [1926] [   0] +15w +09w =02b =08w -01b =04w =05b =12b =03w 
:  7 +NightmareX        [2006]  10.0  [1892] [   0] +10w +14w +11b -01w =08b -03w -04b +21w =05b 
:  8 +rpiStockfish      [1911]  10.0  [1980] [ 223] +20w =03w +09b =06b =07w -11b =02w +14w -01b
:  9 +Goldbar           [1899]  10.0  [1874] [  28] +21w -06b -08w =20b +15b =14w =11w =10b +16w 
: 10 +Marvin            [1814]  10.0  [1784] [  42] -07b =13b +16w -05w -04b +20w +17b =09w +18b 
: 11 +WaDuuttie         [1956]  9.5  [1841] [   0] =05w +27b -07w =04w +13b +08w =09b -01b -02w 
: 12 -Arminius          [1849]  9.5  [1805] [ 122] +17w -01b +21w -02b +16b -05w +13b =06w -04w 
: 13 +Pirarucu          [1754]  9.5  [1793] [ 202] =02b =10w -03b +17w -11w +22b -12w +24b =14w 
: 14 +Baron             [1863]  9.0  [1802] [  18] +33w -07b +20w -03b -02w =09b +15w -08b =13b 
: 15 -Tornado           [1823]  9.0  [1670] [   0] -06b -04b +22w +21b -09w +17w -14b -18w +25w 
: 16 -Tinker            [1744]  9.0  [1661] [   0] -01b +17w -10b +18b -12w +24w -21b +22w -09b
: 17 +rpiArminius       [1583]  9.0  [1638] [  39] -12b -16b +25w -13b +18w -15b -10w +28b +21w 
: 18 -Jumbo             [1537]  9.0  [1680] [ 461] -24w +29b +33b -16w -17b +27w +20b +15b -10w 
: 19 -RookieMonster     [1445]  9.0  [1647] [ 459] -29w +28b +23w =25b =30b +33w =22b =20w +24w 
: 20 -tomitankChess     [1645]  8.5  [1569] [ 127] -08b +24w -14b =09w =21w -10b -18w =19b +31w 
: 21 +atomBaron         [1622]  8.5  [1643] [ 133] -09b +33w -12b -15w =20b +29w +16w -07b -17b 
: 22 -Nameless          [1564]  8.5  [1529] [  25] -27w +25b -15b =24w +33b -13w =19w -16b +32b 
: 23 -Isa               [1408]  8.5  [1480] [ 197] =30b +32w -19b -29b =26w +38w +37b +34w +33b 
: 24 +rpiMinkoChess     [1515]  8.0  [1532] [  83] +18b -20b =29w =22b +27w -16b +28w -13w -19b
: 25 +Bliep             [1507]  8.0  [1529] [ 127] +28b -22w -17b =19w -31b +34w +27b +33w -15b 
: 26 +Embla             [1293]  8.0  [1355] [ 130] -32w =36b +35b +37w =23b =30w +39b +38w +40w 
: 27 +Floyd             [1552]  7.5  [1389] [  12] +22b -11w -05b -33w -24b -18b -25w +39w +35b 
: 28 +Spartacus         [1500]  7.5  [1376] [   0] -25w -19w +34b +30w -29b +31w -24b -17w +36b 
: 29 +rpiFruit          [1455]  7.5  [1453] [  75] +19b -18w =24b +23w +28w -21b -33b -32w +37b 
: 30 +Joker             [1440]  7.5  [1314] [   2] =23w +34w =31b -28b =19w =26b -32w +40b +38w 
: 31 +CTdccc            [1317]  7.5  [1449] [ 251] -34b +35w =30w +32b +25w -28b +36w +37w -20b 
: 32 -Weini             [1236]  7.5  [1417] [ 480] +26b -23b +36w -31w +40b +39w +30b +29b -22w
: 33 -Nemeton           [1589]  7.0  [1328] [   0] -14b -21b -18w +27b -22w -19b +29w -25b -23w 
: 34 +KingSlayer        [1390]  7.0  [1302] [   0] +31w -30b -28w +38w +35b -25b +40w -23b +39b 
: 35 -Skiull            [1157]  5.0  [1168] [  71] +37b -31b -26w +39b -34w +40w +38b -36w -27w 
: 36 +rpiEmbla          [1139]  5.0  [1191] [ 109] +39b =26w -32b +40w +38b -37w -31b +35b -28w 
: 37 +microMax          [1228]  4.0  [1062] [   0] -35w -38w +40b -26b +39w +36b -23w -31b -29w 
: 38 +rpiBikjump        [1051]  3.0  [1088] [ 279] +40w +37b +39w -34b -36w -23b -35w -26b -30b 
: 39 +GearHeart         [1153]  1.5  [ 893] [   0] -36w +40b -38b -35w -37b -32b -26w -27b -34w 
: 40 +POS               [ 791]  0.0  [ 831] [   0] -38b -39w -37w -36b -32w -35b -34b -30w -26b
:
:     Average Rating    1582.1 
:

Could someone explain how the scores are calculated? This is what I find

Code: Select all

Program     reported  actual   difference
              score   score
LeelaZero      13.0     8      5
Berta          11.5     6.5    5
WaspX          11.0     6      5
Schooner       11.0     6      5
RofChade       10.5     5.5    5
ArasanX        10.0     5      5
NightmareX     10.0     5      5
rpiStockfish   10.0     5      5
Goldbar        10.0     5      5
Marvin         10.0     5      5
WaDuuttie       9.5     4.5    5
Arminius        9.5     4.5    5
Pirarucu        9.5     4.5    5
Baron           9.0     4      5
Tornado         9.0     4      5
Tinker          9.0     4      5
rpiArminius     9.0     4      5
Jumbo           9.0     5      4
RookieMonster   9.0     6      3
tomitankChess   8.5     3.5    5
atomBaron       8.5     3.5    5
Nameless        8.5     4      4.5
Isa             8.5     6      2.5
rpiMinkoChess   8.0     4      4
Bliep           8.0     4.5    3.5
Embla           8.0     6.5    1.5
Floyd           7.5     3      4.5
Spartacus       7.5     4      3.5
rpiFruit        7.5     4.5    3
Joker           7.5     5      2.5
CTdccc          7.5     5.5    2
Weini           7.5     6      1.5
Nemeton         7.0     2      5
KingSlayer      7.0     5      2
Skiull          5.0     4      1
rpiEmbla        5.0     4.5    0.5
microMax        4.0     3      1
rpiBikjump      3.0     3      0
GearHeart       1.5     1      0.5
POS             0.0     0      0

Joost Buijs
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Re: On-line engine blitz tourney August

Post by Joost Buijs » Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:19 am

Since half a year or so HGM uses the McMahon system to calculate scores, at first it can be a bit confusing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMahon_system_tournament

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hgm
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Re: On-line engine blitz tourney August

Post by hgm » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:42 am

In the McMahon system each player starts with a number of points, based on their ranking by rating. After that it is normal Swiss.

The top half all receive the same number of points (5 in this case), to not affect their chances of winning the tourney. The bottom half is supposed to have zero chance for winning the tourney anyway, and the bonus points they get linearly falls to zero for the weakest participant.

This prevents the first 2-3 rounds being wasted on games of which the outcome is a certainty. The weakest players get paired with each other from the very start, and an initial win doesn't immediately put them in the top of the field.

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flok
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Re: On-line engine blitz tourney August

Post by flok » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:00 pm

If I compare this:
hgm wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:21 pm

Code: Select all

:Tourney Players: Round 9 of 9 
:
:     Name              Rating Score Perfrm Upset  Results 
:     ----------------- ------ ----- ------ ------ ------- 
...
: 25 +Bliep             [1507]  8.0  [1529] [ 127] +28b -22w -17b =19w -31b +34w +27b +33w -15b 
: 26 +Embla             [1293]  8.0  [1355] [ 130] -32w =36b +35b +37w =23b =30w +39b +38w +40w 
: 27 +Floyd             [1552]  7.5  [1389] [  12] +22b -11w -05b -33w -24b -18b -25w +39w +35b 
: 28 +Spartacus         [1500]  7.5  [1376] [   0] -25w -19w +34b +30w -29b +31w -24b -17w +36b 
: 29 +rpiFruit          [1455]  7.5  [1453] [  75] +19b -18w =24b +23w +28w -21b -33b -32w +37b 
to this (July):

http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.p ... ey#p770841
hgm wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:34 pm

Code: Select all

:Tourney Players: Round 9 of 9 
:
:     Name              Rating Score Perfrm Upset  Results 
:     ----------------- ------ ----- ------ ------ ------- 
...
: 28 +Bliep             [1512]  7.5  [1458] [  91] +29w =25b -21b =30w =23b -24b -17w =34b +37w 
: 29 +Spartacus         [1504]  7.5  [1458] [  58] -28b -30w +35b =22b =17w -25w +33b =27b =26w 
: 30 +Joker             [1437]  7.5  [1466] [ 109] +39b +29b -25w =28b -22w =34b +35w -32w +38b 
: 31 +Eichhoernchen     [1336]  7.5  [1291] [ 135] =36w -34b -38w +42w -37b +43w +44b +33w +40b 
: 32 +Embla             [1276]  7.5  [1520] [ 475] +41b +39w -33w =38b +35b +36w =34w +30b -21w
: 33 +rpiFruit          [1471]  7.0  [1342] [  33] -22b -35w +32b =34w +36w =17b -29w -31b +42w 

Can I the safely conclude that Embla was in the August tournament stronger than floyd/spartacus and fruit (on a rpi3 by the way)? Or are there other factors (like how McMahon tournament works) in play?


regards
www.vanheusden.com: Micah / Embla / PuppetMaster / DeepBrutePos / Pos / Feeks

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hgm
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Re: On-line engine blitz tourney August

Post by hgm » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:01 pm

From 9 games you can never conclude anything (except perhaps when you lose them all).

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