Page 56 of 59

Re: 7-men Syzygy attempt

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:23 pm
by Nordlandia
7-men vs 5-men is not mentioned here.

Any plausible elo edge?

Someone in tcec chat guestimated 7-men yields about 18 elo advantage over 5-men.

Would be nice if he can do some brief testing though.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... &range=A33

Re: 7-men Syzygy attempt

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:39 pm
by Dann Corbit
Nordlandia wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:23 pm
7-men vs 5-men is not mentioned here.

Any plausible elo edge?

Someone in tcec chat guestimated 7-men yields about 18 elo advantage over 5-men.

Would be nice if he can do some brief testing though.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... &range=A33
I think that the man count is not enough to study the question.
What is the speed of the disk subsystem and type of access?

Imagine, for instance, striped raid with gumstick SSDs. Imagine further that access is over the bus and not over the network. Imagine further a TB of RAM for TB cache.

Consider another system with JBOD and a 10MHz network link. And the machine using them has 4 cores and 4GB RAM. And the JBOD disk attachment does not have a RAM cache of any kind.

The value of the TB files is going to be a function of many variables. So a test to determine the strength added will really be a test of the configuration as well.

Re: 7-men Syzygy attempt

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:11 pm
by jshriver
yurikvelo wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:33 am
Is uTorrent/BitTortent compatible with this file set?
I would love to make a torrent and add to my http://oics.olympuschess.com/tracker site. However I do not have the storage available to even host a local copy as of yet.

Re: 7-men Syzygy attempt

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:54 pm
by duncan
Dann Corbit wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:39 pm
Nordlandia wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:23 pm
7-men vs 5-men is not mentioned here.

Any plausible elo edge?

Someone in tcec chat guestimated 7-men yields about 18 elo advantage over 5-men.

Would be nice if he can do some brief testing though.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... &range=A33
I think that the man count is not enough to study the question.
What is the speed of the disk subsystem and type of access?

Imagine, for instance, striped raid with gumstick SSDs. Imagine further that access is over the bus and not over the network. Imagine further a TB of RAM for TB cache.

Consider another system with JBOD and a 10MHz network link. And the machine using them has 4 cores and 4GB RAM. And the JBOD disk attachment does not have a RAM cache of any kind.

The value of the TB files is going to be a function of many variables. So a test to determine the strength added will really be a test of the configuration as well.
Does anybody know what the elo gains are in the best configuration tested so far?

Re: 7-men Syzygy attempt

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:03 am
by Nordlandia
Is it waste to purchase 10 TB HDD for storing WDL for simple adjudication with cutechess?

The idea is that engines probe 5-men during search + automatic 7-piece adjudication once 7 pieces remains on the board.

It will speed up endgames somewhat compared to 6-piece adjudication. But is worth the investment for just passive adjudication?

Re: 7-men Syzygy attempt

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:04 am
by Ozymandias
Nordlandia wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:03 am
Is it waste to purchase 10 TB HDD for storing WDL for simple adjudication with cutechess?

The idea is that engines probe 5-men during search + automatic 7-piece adjudication once 7 pieces remains on the board.

It will speed up endgames somewhat compared to 6-piece adjudication. But is worth the investment for just passive adjudication?
Does cutechess even support 7-piece adjudication?
Also, weren't the DTZ the files you wanted for adjudication?

Re: 7-men Syzygy attempt

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:51 am
by Nordlandia
Ozymandias wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:04 am
Nordlandia wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:03 am
Is it waste to purchase 10 TB HDD for storing WDL for simple adjudication with cutechess?

The idea is that engines probe 5-men during search + automatic 7-piece adjudication once 7 pieces remains on the board.

It will speed up endgames somewhat compared to 6-piece adjudication. But is worth the investment for just passive adjudication?
Does cutechess even support 7-piece adjudication?
Also, weren't the DTZ the files you wanted for adjudication?
Cutechess support 7-piece adjudication. Wdl is needed.

Re: 7-men Syzygy attempt

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:25 am
by yurikvelo
Nordlandia wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:03 am
Is it waste to purchase 10 TB HDD for storing WDL for simple adjudication with cutechess?

The idea is that engines probe 5-men during search + automatic 7-piece adjudication once 7 pieces remains on the board.

It will speed up endgames somewhat compared to 6-piece adjudication. But is worth the investment for just passive adjudication?
Syzygy author explains that WDL is not working correctly without WDZ. Compression scheme require all files (including 3-4-5-6-men)
I would love to make a torrent and add to my http://oics.olympuschess.com/tracker site. However I do not have the storage available to even host a local copy as of yet.
full Nalimov-6 set couldn't be converted to *.torrent, because of limit, so it was split in parts and uploaded to rutracker.org

Re: 7-men Syzygy attempt

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:46 am
by Ozymandias
Nordlandia wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:51 am
Cutechess support 7-piece adjudication. Wdl is needed.
When did they upgrade cutechess? The last syzygy commit I could find dates back two years.

Is WDL all you need? In other words, can you do without DTZ, if you don't play past 7 pieces (ie. you adjudicate)? That would be a huge save in terms of HDD space... and money.

Re: 7-men Syzygy attempt

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:53 am
by Nordlandia
Ozymandias wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:46 am
Nordlandia wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:51 am
Cutechess support 7-piece adjudication. Wdl is needed.
When did they upgrade cutechess? The last syzygy commit I could find dates back two years.

Is WDL all you need? In other words, can you do without DTZ, if you don't play past 7 pieces (ie. you adjudicate)? That would be a huge save in terms of HDD space... and money.
You mean HDD space... money and time ;)

10 TB HDDs is available at 300-350 dollars at the time being. Wdl ~ 10 TB.