WAC 100

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Kempelen
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WAC 100

Post by Kempelen » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:09 pm

[D] 8/k1b5/P4p2/1Pp2p1p/K1P2P1P/8/3B4/8 w

What trick is needed to implement in order the engine to solve this puzzle? I have been trying to figure out what it is without success. My engine play stupid moves that lead to nothing, like Kb3 or Be3....

thanks
Fermin Serrano
Author of 'Rodin' engine
http://sites.google.com/site/clonfsp/

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pedrox
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Re: WAC 100

Post by pedrox » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:31 pm

I do not think there is any special trick except to reach a depth.

My engine sees b5-b6 in depth 23-24, this forces to capture with the bishop and the white king can occupy the square b5 for later with the help of the bishop to eat the pawn of c5 and white manage to have its king in front of a passed pawn, which will force Black to defend the promotion and will give time if necessary to white capture the pawns of the king's flank and crown one of his own.

Perhaps the solution is in the evaluation of passed pawns?

Be3 It is not a bad move if they end up playing b5-b6.
Last edited by pedrox on Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:40 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Robert Pope
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Re: WAC 100

Post by Robert Pope » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:33 pm

Not sure - my engine switches from Kb3 to Be3 at depth 6, but the score barely changes.

Pio
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Re: WAC 100

Post by Pio » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:59 pm

Hi Fermin!

I think the key to solve these types of problems is for the engine to recognize/realise that the white king cannot advance to the middle or right side of the board. The valuable own pawns should be attractors to the king and when the board clears it should be evident that the white king is closer to all the pawns. I think you should evaluate your own pawns as bigger attractors/higher heat than the opponents pawns since attack is the best defence. What I mean is that you could use the pawn hash as a type of retrograde analysis just like a human would. The more complex the problem is, the more you gain by searching both ways (from start to goal and from goal to start). Since it is hard to search from goal to start :( ,why not evaluate from goal to start :) thus helping the search

Stan Arts
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Re: WAC 100

Post by Stan Arts » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:09 pm

Nemeton finds b6 on depth 24 and 3.5 million nodes.
Main driver must be the hashtable as Nemeton is quite low on extentions or special search heuristics. When I disable all pruning besides alpha beta and the hashtable it finds b6 on depth 20 and 23 million nodes.
Do you not take exact hashtable cutoffs?

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Kempelen
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Re: WAC 100

Post by Kempelen » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:20 pm

Well in fact my engine solves it at:

Code: Select all

28    640  00:02:04 159831197 1.b6+!! Bxb6 2.Kb5 Bc7 3.Be3 Ka8 4.Kxc5 Ka7 5.Kc6+ Ka8 6.c5 Ba5 7.Kb5 Bc7 8.c6 Kb8 9.Kc4 Ka8 10.Kd5 Kb8 11.Ke6 Ka8 12.Kxf5 Bd8 13.Kg6 Kb8 14.a7+ Ka8 15.f5 Bc7 16.Kxf6
but I was trying to figure out how to solve it faster. Some strong engines solve it in less than 5 seconds!
Fermin Serrano
Author of 'Rodin' engine
http://sites.google.com/site/clonfsp/

elcabesa
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Re: WAC 100

Post by elcabesa » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:25 pm

Be3 is winning, ad b6+ is winning too :)

Dann Corbit
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Re: WAC 100

Post by Dann Corbit » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:59 am

Most impressive engine to analyze this position is Texel.

Code: Select all

FEN: 8/k1b5/P4p2/1Pp2p1p/K1P2P1P/8/3B4/8 w - - 0 1 

Texel-1.06a19:
   2-	00:00	          30	0	+3.34	Be3 Bb6
   2	00:00	          42	0	+3.34	Be3 Bb6
   3	00:00	          85	0	+3.42	Be3 Bb6 Kb3
   4+	00:00	         121	0	+3.59	Be3 Bb6 Kb3
   4	00:00	         203	203,000	+3.49	Be3 Kb6 Kb3 Bd6
   5	00:00	         344	344,000	+3.63	Be3 Kb6 Kb3 Bd6 Kc3
   6+	00:00	         588	588,000	+3.81	Be3 Kb6 Kb3 Bd6 Kc3
   6	00:00	         650	650,000	+3.81	Be3 Kb6 Kb3 Bd6 Kc3 Bc7
   7	00:00	       1,025	1,025,000	+3.71	Be3 Kb6 Kb3 Bb8 Kc3 Ba7 Kd3
   8+	00:00	       1,780	890,000	+3.88	Be3 Kb6 Kb3 Bb8 Kc3 Ba7 Kd3
   8+	00:00	       2,007	1,003,500	+4.05	Be3 Kb6 Bxc5+ Kxc5 a7
   8-	00:00	       2,086	1,043,000	+3.56	Be3 Bb6 Ka3
   8+	00:00	       2,348	1,174,000	+4.27	Be3 Bb6 Ka3 Kb8 Kb3 Ka7 Kc2
   8	00:00	       2,419	806,333	+4.22	Be3 Bb6 Ka3 Kb8 Kb3 Ka7 Kc2 Kb8 Kc3
   9-	00:00	       5,508	1,377,000	+4.07	Be3 Bb6 Ka3 Kb8 Kb3 Ka7 Ka3
   9-	00:00	       5,837	1,459,250	+3.92	Be3 Bb6 Ka3 Kb8 Kb3 Ka8 Kc3 Ka7 Kc2 Kb8 Kc3 Ka8
   9	00:00	       7,218	1,804,500	+3.72	Be3 Bd6 Kb3 Kb6 Kc2 Be7 Kc3 Bd6 Kd3
   9+	00:00	      10,155	1,692,500	+3.73	Bc1 Bb6 Be3 Kb8 Bd2
   9	00:00	      10,223	1,703,833	+3.72	Be3 Bd6 Kb3 Kb6 Kc2 Be7 Kc3 Bd6 Kd3
  10	00:00	      12,804	1,829,142	+3.61	Be3 Bd6 Kb3 Kb6 Kc3 Bc7 Kc2 Bb8 Kd3 Bd6 Bd2 Bc7
  11+	00:00	      18,748	1,874,800	+3.78	Be3 Bd6 Kb3 Kb6 Kc3 Bc7 Kc2 Bb8 Kd3 Bd6 Kc3
  11	00:00	      21,459	1,950,818	+3.74	Be3 Bd6 Kb3 Kb6 Kc3 Bc7 Kd3 Bd6 Ke2 Bc7 Kd2 Bb8 Kc2 Bc7 Kd3
  12	00:00	      29,144	2,081,714	+3.74	Be3 Bd6 Kb3 Kb6 Kc3 Be7 Kc2 Bd6 Kd3 Bb8 Kc3 Bd6 Kd3
  13	00:00	      33,074	2,067,125	+3.74	Be3 Bd6 Kb3 Kb6 Kc3 Be7 Kc2 Bd6 Kd3 Bb8 Kc3 Bd6 Kd3
  14	00:00	      42,198	2,009,428	+3.74	Be3 Bd6 Kb3 Kb6 Kc3 Be7 Kc2 Bd6 Kd3 Bb8 Kc3 Bd6 Kd3
  15+	00:00	      67,057	2,235,233	+3.90	Be3 Bd6 Ka5 Bc7+ b6+ Bxb6+ Kb5 Bc7 Bxc5+ Ka8 Be3 Bb8
  15+	00:00	      74,438	2,255,696	+4.05	Be3 Bd6 Ka5 Bc7+ b6+ Bxb6+ Kb5 Bc7 Bxc5+ Ka8 Be3 Bb8
  15	00:00	      92,860	2,443,684	+4.12	Be3 Bb6 Bf2 Kb8 Kb3 Ka8 Be3 Kb8 Kc2 Ka8 Bf2 Ka7 Kb2 Kb8 Be3 Ka7 Kb3 Kb8
  16	00:00	     114,603	2,438,361	+4.12	Be3 Bb6 Bf2 Kb8 Kb3 Ka8 Be3 Kb8 Kc2 Ka8 Bf2 Ka7 Kb2 Kb8 Kb3
  16+	00:00	     131,081	2,383,290	+4.14	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Bd6 Bxc5+ Bxc5 Kxc5 Kxa6 Kd5 Ka7 Ke6 Ka8 Kxf5 Kb7 Kxf6
  16+	00:00	     180,450	2,693,283	+4.29	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Kb8 Kxc5 Ba5 Kc6 Be1 c5 Bxh4 Kb5 Kc8 c6
  16+	00:00	     190,611	2,684,661	+4.51	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Kb8 Kxc5 Ba5 Kc6 Be1 c5 Bxh4 Kb6 Bg3 c6 Be1 c7+ Kc8 a7
  16+	00:00	     217,521	2,788,730	+4.84	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Kb8 Kxc5 Ba5 Kb5 Be1 c5 Bxh4 Kb6 Bg3 c6 Be1 c7+ Kc8 a7
  16+	00:00	     242,690	2,855,176	+5.33	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Kb8 Kxc5 Ba5 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Bd8 c6 Bc7 Kc4 Ka8 Kd5 Kb8 Ke6
  16	00:00	     292,659	2,926,590	+5.80	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Kb8 Kxc5 Ba5 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Bd8 c6 Bc7 Kc4 Bd8 Kd5 Ba5 Kd6 Kc8 a7 Bc7+ Kd5
  17+	00:00	     354,935	3,086,391	+5.95	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Kb8 Kxc5 Ba5 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Bd8 c6 Bc7 Kc4 Bd8 Kd5 Ba5 Kd6 Kc8 a7 Bc7+ Kd5
  17-	00:00	     364,527	3,063,252	+5.65	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Kb8 Kxc5 Ka8 Kb5 Kb8 c5 Ka8 c6 Kb8 Kc4 Bd8 Kd5 Ba5 Kd6 Kc8 a7 Bc7+ Kd5
  17-	00:00	     373,083	3,083,330	+5.49	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Kb8 Kxc5 Ka8 Kb5 Kb8 c5 Ka8 c6 Bb8 Kc4 Bc7 Kd5 Ba5 Ke6 Bc7 Kxf5
  17-	00:00	     376,316	3,084,557	+5.26	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Kb8 Kb5 Ka8 c5 Kb8 c6 Bd6 Kc4 Ka8 Kd5 Bb8 Ke6 Ba7 c7
  17-	00:00	     379,208	3,082,991	+4.92	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bb8 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Kb8 c6 Bd6 Kc4 Ka8 Kd5 Bb8 Ke6 Ba7 c7
  17+	00:00	     391,813	3,109,626	+6.10	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bb8 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Kb8 c6 Bd6 Kc4 Ka8 Kd5 Bb8 Ke6 Ba7 c7
  17+	00:00	     419,216	3,152,000	+6.32	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bb8 Kb5 Bd6 c5 Bc7 c6 Bb8 Kc4 Bc7 Kd5 Kb8 Ke6 Ba5 Kxf5 Be1 a7+ Ka8 c7
  17	00:00	     442,455	3,183,129	+5.71	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bb8 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Kb8 c6 Bd6 Kc4 Ka8 Kd5 Bb8 Ke6 Bc7 Kd7
  18+	00:00	     512,191	3,304,458	+5.86	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bb8 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Kb8 c6 Bd6 Kc4 Ka8 Kd5 Bc7 Ke6 Ba5 Kxf5 Bc3 c7
  18+	00:00	     527,187	3,294,918	+6.01	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bb8 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Kb8 c6 Bd6 Kc4 Ka8 Kd5 Bc7 Ke6 Ba5 Kxf5 Bc3 c7
  18+	00:00	     545,605	3,306,696	+6.23	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Kb8 Kb5 Ka8 c5 Kb8 c6 Bd6 Kc4 Ka8 Kd5 Bc7 Ke6 Ba5 Kxf5 Bc3 c7
  18+	00:00	     573,865	3,375,676	+6.56	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Kb8 Kb5 Ka8 c5 Kb8 c6 Ka8 Kc4 Bd6 Kd5 Bc7 Ke6 Ba5 Kxf6 Bd8+ Kxf5 Bxh4 c7
  18-	00:00	     586,322	3,389,144	+5.56	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Ba5 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Bb8 c6 Bc7 Kc4 Bd6 Kd5 Bc7 Ke6 Ba5 Kxf6 Bd8+ Kg6 Bxh4 c7
  18-	00:00	     598,566	3,288,824	+5.17	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Ba5 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Bb8 c6 Bc7 Kc4 Bd6 Kd5 Bc7 Ke6 Ba5 Kxf6 Bd8+ Kg6 Bxh4 c7
  18	00:00	     611,929	3,307,724	+5.71	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Ba5 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Bb8 c6 Bc7 Kc4 Bd6 Kd5 Bc7 Ke6 Bd8 Kd7 Ba5 Bd4 Kb8 a7+ Ka8 c7 Bxc7 Kxc7
  19+	00:00	     676,781	3,418,085	+5.86	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Ba5 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Bb8 c6 Bc7 Kc4 Bd6 Kd5 Bc7 Ke6 Bd8 Kd7 Ba5 Bd4 Kb8 a7+ Ka8 c7 Bxc7 Kxc7
  19+	00:00	     692,242	3,426,940	+6.01	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Ba5 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Bb8 c6 Bc7 Kc4 Bd6 Kd5 Bc7 Ke6 Bd8 Kd7 Ba5 Bd4 Kb8 a7+ Ka8 c7 Bxc7 Kxc7
  19+	00:00	     729,314	3,506,317	+6.23	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bb8 Kc6 Bc7 Kb5 Bb8 c5 Bc7 c6 Kb8 Kb4 Ka8 Kc4 Bd8 Kd5
  19+	00:00	     776,243	3,610,432	+6.56	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Kb8 Kb4 Ka8 c5 Kb8 Kb5 Ka8 Kc4 Bd8 c6 Ba5 Kd5 Bd8 Ke6 Kb8 Kxf5 Be7 Bd4
  19	00:00	     848,183	3,786,531	+6.32	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bb8 Kb4 Bc7 c5 Ka7 Kb5 Ka8 c6 Kb8 Kb4 Ka8 Kc4 Ba5 Kd5 Bd8 Kc4 Ba5
  20+	00:00	     958,752	3,978,224	+6.47	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bb8 Kb4 Be5 c5 Kb8 Kb5 Ka8 fxe5
  20-	00:00	   1,039,858	4,142,860	+6.17	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Kb8 Bd2 Ka7 Kb5 Bb6 c5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kc4 Kb8 Kb5 Ka8
  20-	00:00	   1,049,634	4,148,750	+6.02	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Kb8 Bd2 Ka7 Kb5 Bb6 c5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kc4 Kb8 Kb5 Ka8
  20-	00:00	   1,059,376	4,170,771	+5.80	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Kb8 Kxc5 Ba5 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Ka8 Kc4 Kb8 Kb5
  20-	00:00	   1,077,357	4,175,802	+4.98	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Kb8 Kxc5 Ba5 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Ka8 Kc4 Kb8 Kb5
  20+	00:00	   1,101,145	4,218,946	+6.62	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Kb8 Kxc5 Ba5 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Ka8 c6 Kb8 Kc4 Bd6 Kd5 Bc7 Ke6 Ka8 Kxf6 Bd8+ Kg6 Kb8 Kxh5 Bc7 Kg6
  20+	00:00	   1,168,820	4,312,988	+6.84	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Kb8 Kxc5 Ba5 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Ka8 c6 Kb8 Kc4 Bd6 Kd5 Be7 Ke6 Bb4 Kxf5 Be1 a7+ Ka8 c7 Kb7 c8Q+
  20+	00:00	   1,225,315	4,376,125	+7.17	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Kb8 Kxc5 Ba5 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Ka8 c6 Kb8 Kc4 Ka8 Kd5 Bd8 Ke6 Kb8 Kxf5 Be7 Kg6
  20	00:00	   1,382,405	4,623,428	+7.24	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Kb8 Kxc5 Ba5 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Ka8 c6 Kb8 Kc4 Bd8 Kd5 Bc7 Ke6 Ka8 Kxf5 Ba5 Kxf6 Bd8+ Kg6 Bxh4 c7
  21+	00:00	   1,545,531	4,784,925	+7.39	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Kb8 Kxc5 Ba5 Kb5 Bc7 Kc6 Ba5 Kb5
  21+	00:00	   1,638,756	4,834,088	+7.54	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Kb8 Kxc5 Ka8 Kb5 Bb8 c5 Bc7 c6 Kb8 Kc4 Ba5 Kd5 Kc7 a7
  21+	00:00	   1,731,416	4,891,005	+7.76	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Kb8 Kxc5 Ka8 Kb5 Bd8 c5 Bc7 c6 Kb8 Kc4 Ba5 Kd5 Kc7 a7
  21-	00:00	   1,815,577	3,955,505	+7.09	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Kb8 Kxc5 Ka8 Kb5 Bb8 c5 Bc7 c6 Kb8 Kb4 Bd6+ Kb5 Bc7
  21-	00:00	   1,848,536	3,983,913	+6.72	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Kb8 Kxc5 Ka8 Kb5 Bb8 c5 Bc7 c6 Kb8 Kb4 Bd6+ Kb5 Bc7
  21-	00:00	   1,861,539	3,994,718	+6.39	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Kb8 Kb5 Ka8 c5 Ka7 c6+ Kb8 Kb4 Bd6+ Kb5 Bc7
  21-	00:00	   1,878,551	4,005,439	+5.90	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bd8 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Bd8 c6 Bc7 Kc4 Ba5 Kd5 Bc7 Ke6 Ba5 Kxf5 Kb8 Kxf6 Kc7 a7 Bc3+ Kg6
  21	00:00	   1,930,151	4,063,475	+7.24	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bd8 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Bb8 c6 Bc7 Kc4 Kb8 Kd5 Bd8 Kc4 Bc7
  22	00:00	   2,167,931	4,284,448	+7.24	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bd8 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Bb8 c6 Bc7 Kc4 Kb8 Kd5 Bd8 Kc4 Bc7
  23+	00:01	   2,470,046	4,540,525	+7.39	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bd8 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Bb8 c6 Bc7 Kc4 Kb8 Kd5 Bd8 Kd6 Bc7+ Kd7 Ba5 Ke6 Bc3 a7+ Ka8 c7
  23+	00:01	   2,532,320	4,562,738	+7.54	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bb8 Kb5 Bd6 c5 Bc7 c6 Kb8 Kc4 Ba5 Kd5 Bd8 Kd6 Ka8 Ke6 Ba5 Kxf5 Bc7 Kxf6 Bd8+ Kg6 Bxh4 c7
  23+	00:01	   2,632,788	4,610,837	+7.76	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bb8 Kb5 Bd6 c5 Bc7 Kc6 Bd8 Kd7 Ba5 c6 Be1 c7
  23-	00:01	   2,645,909	4,617,642	+7.09	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bb8 Kb5 Bd6 c5 Bc7 Kc6 Bb8 Kb5 Ba7 c6 Bb8 Kb4 Bc7 Kb5 Bd6 Kb6 Bb8 Kb5 Bc7 Kb4 Kb8 Kb5 Bd6 Kc4 Bc7 Kd5 Ka8 Ke6 Bd8 Kxf5 Kb8 Ke6 f5 Kxf5 Bxh4 a7+ Ka8 c7 Kb7 Ke6
  23-	00:01	   2,705,691	4,640,979	+6.39	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bb8 Kb5 Bd6 c5 Bc7 Kc6 Bb8 Kb5 Ba7 c6 Bb8 Kb4 Bc7 Kb5 Bd6 Kb6 Bb8 Kb5 Bc7 Kb4 Kb8 Kb5 Bd6 Kc4 Bc7 Kd5 Ka8 Ke6 Bd8 Kxf5 Kb8 Ke6 f5 Kxf5 Bxh4 a7+ Ka8 c7 Kb7 Ke6
  23	00:01	   2,795,428	4,714,043	+7.63	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bb8 Kb4 Bc7 Kb5 Kb8 c5 Ka8 c6 Bd6 Kc4 Bc7 Kd5 Bb8 Ke6 Bc7 Kxf5 Bd8 Kg6 f5 Kxf5 Kb8 Kg6 Bxh4 a7+ Ka8 c7 Kb7 c8Q+
  24+	00:01	   3,134,158	4,920,185	+7.78	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bb8 Kb5 Bc7 c5 Bb8 c6 Bc7 Kc4 Bd6 Kd5 Bc7 Ke6 Bd8 Kxf5 Kb8 Kg6 Ka8 f5 Bc7 Kxh5 Kb8 Kg6 Be5
  24-	00:01	   3,234,818	4,976,643	+7.48	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bb8 Kc6 Bc7 Kc5
  24-	00:01	   3,261,824	4,979,883	+7.33	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Kb8 Kc6 Ka8 Kc5
  24-	00:01	   3,328,064	4,356,104	+6.29	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Kb8 Kc6 Ka8 Kc5
  24-	00:01	   3,366,938	4,366,975	+5.56	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Ka7 Kc6+ Ka8 Kc5
  24+	00:01	   3,481,077	4,434,492	+7.93	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bd8 Kc6 Bc7 c5 Bb8 Kd7 Ka7 c6+ Kxa6 c7 Bxc7 Kxc7 Kb5 Kd7 Kc4 Ke6 Kd3 Kxf6 Ke4 Kg6 Kd3 Kxf5 Kxe3
  24+	00:01	   3,694,475	4,544,249	+8.15	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bd8 Kc6 Bc7 c5 Ba5 Kd7 Kb8 c6 Bc7 a7+ Ka8 Bd2 Bb6 c7 Bxc7 Kxc7 Kxa7 Be3+ Ka6 Kd7 Kb5 Ke6 Kc4 Kxf5 Kb3 Kxf6
  24+	00:01	   3,867,560	4,609,725	+8.48	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bd8 Kc6 Be7 c5 Ka7 Kd7 Kxa6 Kxe7 Ka7 Kxf6 Kb7 c6+
  24+	00:01	   4,052,457	4,674,114	+8.97	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bd8 Kc6 Bc7 c5 Be5 fxe5 fxe5 Kb6 f4 c6 Kb8 c7+ Kc8 a7
  24+	00:01	   4,285,298	4,766,738	+9.70	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bd8 Kc6 Bc7 c5 Bd8 Kd7 Ba5 c6 Kb8 a7+ Ka8 Bb6 Bxb6 c7 Bxc7 Kxc7 Kxa7 Kd7 Ka8 Ke6 Kb7 Kxf5
  24+	00:01	   4,557,392	4,863,812	+10.79	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bd8 Kc6 Bc7 c5 Bd8 Kd7 Ba5 c6 Kb8 c7+ Bxc7 Ba7+ Ka8 Kxc7 Kxa7 Kd7 Kb6 a7
  24+	00:01	   4,959,871	5,030,295	+12.42	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bd8 Kc6 Bc7 c5 Bb8 Kd7 Ba7 c6 Bxe3 c7 Ka7 c8Q Kb6 Qb7+ Ka5 a7
  24+	00:01	   5,965,940	5,473,339	+14.86	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bd8 Kc6 Bc7 c5 Ba5 Kd7 Kb8 c6 Ka8 Bd2 Bxd2 c7 Ka7 c8Q Kb6 Qb7+ Ka5 a7
  24+	00:01	   7,733,870	6,221,938	+18.52	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bd8 Kc6 Bc7 c5 Ba5 Kd7 Kb8 c6 Ka8 Bd2 Bxd2 c7 Ka7 c8Q Kb6 Qc6+ Ka5 a7
  24+	00:01	  10,575,417	7,228,583	+24.01	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bb8 Kb5 Bc7 Kc6 Be5 fxe5 fxe5 Kb5 Kb8 c5 Kc7 a7 Kd7 a8Q Ke7 Bg5+ Kf7 Qd5+ Kf8 Qd8+ Kg7 Qf6+ Kg8 Bh6
  24+	00:01	  12,285,910	7,650,006	+32.24	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bb8 Kb5 Bd6 Kc6 Ba3 Kd7 Bb2 c5 Ka7 c6+ Kxa6 c7 Kb5 c8Q Ka4 Qc4+
  24+	00:01	  12,354,314	7,654,469	+318.11	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Bb8 Kb5 Bd6 Kc6 Ba3 Kd7 Bb2 c5 Ka7 c6+ Kxa6 c7 Kb5 c8Q Ka4 Qc4+
  24	00:20	 125,675,302	6,067,460	+18.03	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Kb8 Kc6 Ka8 Kd7 Bb8 c5 Ba7 c6 Bb8 a7 Bc7 Bd2 Bb6 c7 Bxc7 Kxc7 Kxa7 Kd7 Kb6 Ke6 Kc5 Kxf5 Kc4 Kxf6 Kd3 Kg6 Ke4 Kxh5
  25+	00:20	 126,640,731	6,088,203	+318.11	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Kb8 Kc6 Ka8 Kd7 Bb8 a7 Bxa7 Bxa7 Kb7 c5 Kxa7 c6 Kb6 c7 Kc5 c8Q+ Kd4 Ke6 Ke3 Kxf6 Kf3 Qxf5 Ke3 Qxh5 Kd2 Qf3 Kc2 Ke5 Kb2 Qd3 Ka1 Qd2 Kb1 Kd4 Ka1 Kc3 Kb1 Qb2+
  25	00:30	 143,944,107	4,785,694	+M407	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Bb8 Bxc5+ Ka8 Be3 Bd6 Kc6 Bb4 Kd7 Ba5 a7 Be1 c5 Ba5 c6 Bb6 Bd2 Kxa7 Be3 Bxe3 c7 Kb6 c8Q Kb5 Qc6+ Kb4 Qd6+ Bc5 Qxc5+ Kxc5 Ke6 Kd4 Kxf6 Ke4 Kg5 Kd3
  26	00:33	 163,953,270	4,909,221	+M32	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Bb8 Bxc5+ Ka8 Be3 Bd6 Kc6 Bb4 Kd7 Ba5 c5 Ka7 c6+ Ka8 Bb6 Bxb6 c7 Bxc7 Kxc7 Ka7 Kd7 Kxa6 Ke6 Kb5 Kxf5 Kc4 Kxf6 Kd3 Kg6 Ke4 Kxh5 Kf5 Kh6 Ke4 Kg5 Kd5 Kg6 Kc4 f5 Kb3 h5 Ka2 f6 Ka1 h6 Kb1 f7 Ka1 f8Q Kb2 Qf3 Ka1 Qe2 Kb1 h7 Ka1 h8Q+ Kb1 Qeb2+
  27	00:34	 167,155,238	4,933,015	+M32	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Bb8 Bxc5+ Ka8 Be3 Bd6 Kc6 Bb4 Kd7 Ba5 c5 Ka7 c6+ Ka8 Bb6 Bxb6 c7 Bxc7 Kxc7 Ka7 Kd7 Kxa6 Ke6 Kb5 Kxf5 Kc4 Kxf6 Kd3 Kg6 Ke4 Kxh5 Kf5 Kh6 Ke4 Kg5 Kd5 Kg6 Kc4 f5 Kb3 h5 Ka2 f6 Ka1 h6 Kb1 f7 Ka1 f8Q Kb2 Qf3 Ka1 Qe2 Kb1 h7 Ka1 h8Q+ Kb1 Qeb2+
  28	00:36	 187,956,355	5,106,122	+M32	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Bb8 Bxc5+ Ka8 Be3 Bd6 Kc6 Bb4 Kd7 Ba5 c5 Ka7 c6+ Ka8 Bb6 Bxb6 c7 Bxc7 Kxc7 Ka7 Kd7 Kxa6 Ke6 Kb5 Kxf5 Kc4 Kxf6 Kd3 Kg6 Ke4 Kxh5 Kf5 Kh6 Ke4 Kg5 Kd5 Kg6 Kc4 f5 Kb3 h5 Ka2 f6 Ka1 h6 Kb1 f7 Ka1 f8Q Kb2 Qf3 Ka1 Qe2 Kb1 h7 Ka1 h8Q+ Kb1 Qeb2+
  29	00:41	 216,296,522	5,263,713	+M32	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Bb8 Bxc5+ Ka8 Be3 Bd6 Kc6 Bb4 Kd7 Ba5 c5 Ka7 c6+ Kb8 a7+ Ka8 Bd2 Bb6 c7 Bxc7 Kxc7 Kxa7 Kd7 Ka8 Ke6 Kb7 Kxf6 Kc8 Kxf5 Kd7 Kg6 Ke6 Kxh5 Kf5 Bc1 Ke4 Kg4 Kd3 Kf3 Kc2 Be3 Kb1 Ke4 Ka1 f5 Kb1 Kd3 Ka1 Kc2 Ka2 Bc1 Ka1 f6 Ka2 f7 Ka1 f8Q Ka2 Qa3+
  30	00:43	 237,172,955	5,472,127	+M31	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Bb8 Bxc5+ Ka8 Be3 Bd6 Kc6 Bb4 Kd7 Ba5 c5 Ka7 c6+ Ka8 Bd2 Bb6 c7 Bxc7 Kxc7 Ka7 Bc3 Kxa6 Kd7 Kb5 Ke6 Kc4 Bxf6 Kd3 Kxf5 Ke3 Kg6 Kxf4 Kxh5 Kf5 Ba1 Ke4 Kg5 Kd3 h5 Kc2 h6 Kb1 h7
  31	00:48	 278,495,679	5,728,242	+M31	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Bb8 Bxc5+ Ka8 Be3 Bd6 Kc6 Bb4 Kd7 Ba5 c5 Ka7 c6+ Ka8 Bd2 Bb6 c7 Bxc7 Kxc7 Ka7 Bc3 Kxa6 Kd7 Kb5 Ke6 Kc4 Bxf6 Kd3 Kxf5 Ke3 Kg6 Kxf4 Kxh5 Kf5 Ba1 Ke4 Kg5 Kd3 h5 Kc2 h6 Kb1 h7
  32	01:00	 365,072,160	6,045,542	+M30	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Bb8 Bxc5+ Ka8 Be3 Bd6 Kc6 Bb4 Kd7 Ba5 c5 Ka7 c6+ Ka8 Bb6 Bxb6 c7 Bxc7 Kxc7 Ka7 Kd7 Kb8 Ke6 Ka7 Kxf5 Kb8 Kxf6 Ka8 a7 Kxa7 f5 Kb6 Ke6 Kc7 f6 Kc6 f7 Kb5 f8Q Kc4 Qf1+ Kb3 Qc1 Ka2 Qd2+ Ka1 Kd5 Kb1 Kc4 Ka1 Kb3 Kb1 Qd1+
  33	02:03	 854,625,318	6,909,022	+M24	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Bb8 Bxc5+ Ka8 Be3 Bd6 c5 Bb8 c6 Bc7 Kc4 Kb8 Kd5 Ka8 Ke6 Bb8 Kd7 Bc7 Bc5 Ba5 Be7 Ka7 Bd8 Bc7 Bxc7 Kxa6 Bd8 Kb5 c7 Kc4 c8Q+ Kd4 Qc2 Ke3 Bb6+ Kf3 Qf2+ Kg4 Ba5 Kh3 Be1 Kg4 Qg3+
  34	02:39	1,138,583,795	7,139,306	+M24	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Bb8 Bxc5+ Ka8 Be3 Bd6 c5 Bb8 c6 Bc7 Kc4 Kb8 Kd5 Ka8 Ke6 Bb8 Kd7 Bc7 Bc5 Ba5 Be7 Ka7 Bd8 Bc7 Bxc7 Kxa6 Bd8 Kb5 c7 Kc4 c8Q+ Kd4 Qc2 Ke3 Bb6+ Kf3 Qf2+ Kg4 Ba5 Kh3 Be1 Kg4 Qg3+
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But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

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JVMerlino
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Location: San Francisco, California

Re: WAC 100

Post by JVMerlino » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:13 am

Kempelen wrote:[D] 8/k1b5/P4p2/1Pp2p1p/K1P2P1P/8/3B4/8 w

What trick is needed to implement in order the engine to solve this puzzle? I have been trying to figure out what it is without success. My engine play stupid moves that lead to nothing, like Kb3 or Be3....

thanks
I just ran Myrddin on this position and it took almost 25 seconds to find b6 at depth 28. But that was odd because I don't remember it failing during a recent run of the whole WAC suite, and I require that each position be solved in at most 5 seconds to get credit.

It turns out that my version of WAC shows both b6 AND Be3 as acceptable but with a comment that "b6+ is probably better". Does anybody else have this version? Is mine outdated?

Dann Corbit
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Re: WAC 100

Post by Dann Corbit » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:29 am

JVMerlino wrote:
Kempelen wrote:[D] 8/k1b5/P4p2/1Pp2p1p/K1P2P1P/8/3B4/8 w

What trick is needed to implement in order the engine to solve this puzzle? I have been trying to figure out what it is without success. My engine play stupid moves that lead to nothing, like Kb3 or Be3....

thanks
I just ran Myrddin on this position and it took almost 25 seconds to find b6 at depth 28. But that was odd because I don't remember it failing during a recent run of the whole WAC suite, and I require that each position be solved in at most 5 seconds to get credit.

It turns out that my version of WAC shows both b6 AND Be3 as acceptable but with a comment that "b6+ is probably better". Does anybody else have this version? Is mine outdated?
Both moves lead to checkmate.

Komodo 10 on MPV:3

Code: Select all

     34	00:18	 182,607,758	9,802,915	+10.92	Kb3 Bb8 Kc2 Kb6 Kb2 Ka7 Ba5 Bxf4 Bd8 Bg3 Bxf6 Bc7 Kc2 Kb6 Kd3 Bd6 Bd8+ Ka7 Kc3 Bf8 Bf6 Bd6 Kd2 Bh2 Kd3 Bd6 Bd8 Bf8 Ke2 Kb8 Ke3 Kc8 Bf6 Bh6+ Kd3 Bf4 b6 Bc7 a7 Bxb6 a8Q+ Kd7 Qd5+ Kc8 Be5
     34	00:18	 182,606,657	9,802,856	+250.00	Be3 Bd6 Ka5 Bc7+ b6+ Bxb6+ Kb5 Bc7 Bxc5+ Kb8 Be3 Ka8 c5 Bb8 c6 Bd6 Bb6 Kb8 Bf2 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Bb6 Bb8 c7 Bxc7 Bxc7 Ka7 Bb6+ Kb8 Kc5 Ka8 Kc6 Kb8 a7+ Ka8 Kd6 Kb7 a8Q+ Kxa8 Ke6
     34	00:18	 182,605,554	9,802,797	+250.00	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Kb8 Kc6 Ba5 c5 Ka8 Kb5 Bc7 c6 Bd6 Bb6 Kb8 Bf2 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Bb6 Bb8 c7 Bxc7 Bxc7 Ka7 Bb6+ Kb8 Kc5 Ka8 Kc6 Kb8 a7+ Ka8 Kd6
Stockfish on MPV:3

Code: Select all

    62/75	03:03	 517,100,524	2,823,633	+3.99	Kb3 Bb8 Bc3 Bc7 Bxf6 Ba5 Be7 Bb6 Ka3 Kb8 Bf6 Ka7 Ka4 Bc7 Be5 Bd8 Bd6 Bb6 Be7 Kb8 Bf6 Ka7 Ka3 Kb8 Be7 Ka7 Bd6 Ka8 Kb2 Ka7 Kb3 Ka8 Bf8 Ka7 Be7 Kb8 Bf6 Ka7 Kb2 Ba5 Be7 Bb6 Bd6 Ka8 Kc3 Ba5+ Kd3 Bb6 Bf8 Kb8 Kc3 Ka7 Bd6 Ba5+ Kd3 Bb6 Ke3 Ka8 Kf3 Ka7 Be7 Kb8 Ke3 Ka7 Bf6 Kb8 Bg7 Bd8 Kf3 Bb6 Bf8 Ka8 Ke3 Ka7
    63/75	03:03	 517,100,524	2,823,633	+128.39	b6+ Bxb6 Kb5 Bc7 Be3 Ka8 Kxc5 Kb8 Kb5 Ka8 c5 Ka7 c6+ Kb8 Bb6 Bd6 c7+ Bxc7 Bxc7+ Kxc7 Kc5 Kc8 Kd6 Kb8 Ke6 Kc7 Kxf5 Kc6 Kxf6
    63/75	03:03	 517,100,524	2,823,633	+128.40	Be3 Bd6 Ka5 Bc7+ b6+ Bxb6+ Kb5 Bc7 Bxc5+ Ka8 Be7 Bxf4 c5 Bc7 Bd6 Bd8 c6 f4 Bxf4 f5 Bd6 f4 Bxf4 Ka7 c7 Bxc7 Bxc7
I think b6+ at mate in 24 is the fastest mate, but I am not positive.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

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