PGN notation confusion

[Ajedrecista]

Hello:

Hi Martin,

Thx for your input. Here are 2 games that display the notation I mentioned in my previous post.

[Event "CEGT-40/120"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2012.06.30"]
[Round "3.1"]
[White "Deep Onno 1.2.70 x64"]
[Black "Bobcat 2.75 x64"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A87"]
[PlyCount "137"]

1. d4 f5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 g6 4. c4 d6 5. Nc3 Bg7 6. Nf3 O-O 7. O-O Qe8 8. d5
Na6 9. Rb1 9... e5 {+0.14/24 3:33m} 10. dxe6 {+0.33/16 3:48m} 10... Qxe6 {
+0.24/22 3:34m} 11. Nd5 {+0.33/18 3:40m (b3)} 11... c6 {+0.22/24 3:34m (Dd7)}
12. Ng5 {+0.34/19 2:32m} 12... Qd7 {+0.28/24 3:34m} 13. Nxf6+ {+0.34/18 3:43m}
13... Bxf6 {+0.29/23 3:35m} 14. b4 {+0.36/17 3:44m} 14... h6 {
+0.35/23 3:35m (De7)} 15. Nf3 {+0.60/16 3:44m} 15... Kh7 {+0.30/23 3:36m} 16.
Be3 {+0.53/18 4:17m} 16... Rd8 {+0.31/23 3:36m (Dg7)} 17. Qc1 {+0.49/18 2:39m}
17... Bg7 {+0.34/24 3:36m (Dg7)} 18. Rd1 {+0.56/18 3:29m} 18... Nc7 {
+0.32/24 3:37m} 19. Bd4 {+0.48/17 7:54m} 19... Qe7 {+0.31/22 3:37m} 20. Bxg7 {
+0.52/16 3:38m} 20... Kxg7 {+0.33/22 3:38m (Dxg7)} 21. Nd4 {+0.67/16 3:04m (b5)
} 21... c5 {+0.43/22 3:38m (Se6)} 22. bxc5 {+0.95/18 2:56m (Sc2)} 22... dxc5 {
+0.35/25 3:39m} 23. Nb3 {+0.97/19 3:44m (Da3)} 23... Rxd1+ {+0.75/27 3:40m} 24.
Qxd1 {+1.00/19 3:44m} 24... Rb8 {+0.62/28 3:40m (Se6)} 25. Na5 {+1.02/19 3:30m}
25... Na6 {+0.78/28 3:41m} 26. a3 {+1.09/19 2:33m} 26... Kh7 {+0.86/27 3:42m}
27. Rb3 {+1.60/18 2:54m (Dd5)} 27... Qc7 {+0.77/26 3:43m (Le6)} 28. Re3 {
+1.96/21 2:23m (Dd2)} 28... f4 {+1.95/27 3:43m (h5)} 29. gxf4 {+2.33/19 4:06m}
29... Bf5 {+2.66/28 3:44m (h5)} 30. Nxb7 {+2.47/19 4:07m (Da1)} 30... Qg7 {
+2.64/26 3:45m (h5)} 31. Re5 {+2.76/19 3:01m (Dd5)} 31... Rf8 {+3.08/27 3:46m}
32. Nxc5 {+2.79/19 4:08m (Dd5)} 32... Nxc5 {+2.97/28 3:48m} 33. Rxc5 {
+2.79/19 4:20m} 33... Rb8 {+3.00/28 3:49m} 34. Rb5 {+2.85/19 4:22m (e4)} 34...
Rb6 {+3.06/26 3:51m} 35. Bd5 {+3.01/18 4:24m} 35... Rxb5 {+3.13/28 3:53m (Df6)}
36. cxb5 {+3.20/19 4:26m} 36... Bh3 {+3.15/29 3:55m (h5)} 37. e3 {
+3.24/19 4:30m (Dc1)} 37... Qd7 {+3.34/27 3:58m (Dc3)} 38. a4 {+3.42/20 4:34m}
38... h5 {+3.29/29 4:02m (De7)} 39. f3 {+3.85/20 4:41m (e4)} 39... Qc7 {
+4.18/27 4:08m (Lf5)} 40. Kf2 {+4.07/20 4:43m (Le4)} 40... Qe7 {
+4.20/26 2:17m (Lf5)} 41. Qd4 {+4.37/19 1:57m} 41... Bf5 {+4.59/27 2:57m} 42.
e4 {+4.83/19 2:55m (Le4)} 42... Bc8 {+5.30/28 2:58m} 43. Ke2 {
+5.18/20 2:37m (De5)} 43... Bd7 {+6.15/26 2:58m} 44. Qe5 {+5.46/20 2:54m} 44...
Qd8 {+6.28/27 2:59m} 45. f5 {+6.64/19 18:05m (Lc6)} 45... gxf5 {
+7.08/27 2:59m (Dg5)} 46. Bc6 {+7.59/18 2:01m} 46... Bc8 {+7.16/28 3:00m} 47.
exf5 {+7.96/17 2:01m} 47... Qg8 {+7.12/26 3:00m} 48. f6 {+16.72/20 1:52m} 48...
Qg2+ {+17.24/25 3:01m (Da2+)} 49. Kd3 {+23.69/23 1:17m} 49... Kh6 {
+29.44/28 3:02m} 50. Qe3+ {+26.59/24 1:18m} 50... Kg6 {+30.84/30 3:03m} 51.
Qe8+ {+M27/24 2:36m} 51... Kxf6 {+M-1366/30 3:04m} 52. Qf8+ {+M24/25 1:46m}
52... Ke6 {+M-1367/30 3:05m} 53. Qxc8+ {+M23/25 2:48m} 53... Kf6 {
+M-1368/29 3:06m (Ke7)} 54. Qd8+ {+M21/23 2:12m} 54... Kg7 {+M-1369/29 3:07m}
55. Qd4+ {+M16/23 2:13m} 55... Kf7 {+M-1370/29 3:09m} 56. Qxa7+ {
+M15/22 2:14m (Ld5+)} 56... Kf6 {+M-1369/28 3:10m} 57. Qd4+ {+M13/23 2:16m}
57... Kf7 {+M-1370/28 3:13m (Kf5)} 58. Bd5+ {+M12/22 2:18m (Dd7+)} 58... Kg6 {
+M-1371/28 3:16m} 59. Qe4+ {+M11/22 2:22m} 59... Kh6 {+M-1373/28 3:21m} 60.
Qe6+ {+M10/22 2:14m} 60... Qg6+ {+M-1374/27 1:51m} 61. Qxg6+ {+M9/23 48s} 61...
Kxg6 {+14.40/5 0s} 62. Kd4 {+M8/23 47s (b6)} 62... h4 {+M-1376/25 54s (Kf6)}
63. b6 {+M7/24 36s} 63... Kg7 {+M-1377/25 52s (Kf5)} 64. Ke5 {+M6/26 29s} 64...
h3 {+M-1378/25 51s (Kf8)} 65. b7 {+M5/35 34s} 65... Kh7 {+M-1379/25 50s (Kg6)}
66. Kf5 {+M4/37 28s (b8D)} 66... Kg7 {+M-1380/26 48s (Kh6)} 67. b8=Q {
+M3/127 0s} 67... Kh7 {+M-1381/26 47s} 68. Qg8+ {+M2/127 0s} 68... Kh6 {
+M-1382/5 0s} 69. Qg6# {+M1/127 0s (Dh8+)} 1-0

[Event "CEGT-40/120"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2012.06.30"]
[Round "2.1"]
[White "Bobcat 2.75 x64"]
[Black "Deep Onno 1.2.70 x64"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A25"]
[PlyCount "144"]

1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. g3 g6 4. Bg2 Bg7 5. e3 Nge7 6. Nge2 O-O 7. O-O d6 8. d3
8... Rb8 {-0.03/17 2:46m} 9. d4 {0.00/25 3:33m (Kh1)} 9... exd4 {-0.21/17 2:50m
} 10. exd4 {+0.01/25 3:34m} 10... Re8 {-0.20/18 3:37m (Sf5)} 11. d5 {
-0.02/24 3:34m (Lg5)} 11... Ne5 {-0.34/18 2:44m} 12. Qb3 {-0.08/23 3:34m (b3)}
12... Bg4 {-0.43/17 3:32m (a6)} 13. h3 {-0.19/22 3:35m (f3)} 13... Bf5 {
-0.39/18 2:15m} 14. Nf4 {-0.25/25 3:35m} 14... Nc8 {-0.48/18 2:23m} 15. Na4 {
-0.39/25 3:36m (Sd1)} 15... Bd7 {-0.53/18 2:46m (Sb6)} 16. Be3 {-0.55/25 3:36m}
16... Ne7 {-0.61/18 3:41m} 17. g4 {-0.72/23 3:36m (Sc3)} 17... h5 {
-1.51/17 3:24m (b5)} 18. gxh5 {-0.87/24 3:37m (f3)} 18... g5 {
-1.71/18 3:42m (b5)} 19. Ne2 {-1.51/24 3:37m} 19... Nf5 {-1.80/18 3:12m} 20.
Nac3 {-1.93/24 3:38m} 20... Nxe3 {-1.99/18 3:23m} 21. fxe3 {-2.05/25 3:38m}
21... g4 {-1.99/18 3:46m} 22. hxg4 {-2.32/25 3:39m} 22... Nxg4 {
-2.17/18 3:47m (Dh4)} 23. Rf3 {-2.29/25 3:40m (e4)} 23... Nxe3 {
-2.72/17 3:48m (Dh4)} 24. Nf4 {-2.89/21 3:40m (Tg3)} 24... Nxg2 {-3.07/17 3:48m
} 25. Nxg2 {-3.34/24 3:41m} 25... Bd4+ {-2.90/19 2:53m} 26. Kf1 {-3.52/27 3:42m
} 26... Qg5 {-3.35/20 4:10m} 27. Nd1 {-3.62/26 3:42m} 27... Bg4 {-3.36/20 5:28m
} 28. Nf2 {-3.75/26 3:43m} 28... Bxf3 {-3.36/18 3:47m (f5)} 29. Qxf3 {
-3.68/26 3:44m} 29... b5 {-3.43/20 6:07m (Lxb2)} 30. Ne4 {-3.79/25 3:45m} 30...
Qe5 {-3.42/20 4:49m} 31. Re1 {-4.14/26 3:46m} 31... bxc4 {-3.62/19 3:29m} 32.
Nd2 {-3.95/26 3:48m} 32... Qg5 {-4.04/19 2:14m} 33. Ne4 {-4.76/26 3:49m} 33...
Qg7 {-4.20/19 3:37m} 34. b3 {-4.29/26 3:51m} 34... Re5 {-4.39/18 2:26m (f5)}
35. Nf2 {-4.78/23 3:53m} 35... cxb3 {-4.49/18 12:02m (c3)} 36. axb3 {
-4.66/25 3:55m} 36... Rg5 {-4.49/18 2:31m (Txe1+)} 37. Ne4 {-5.08/26 3:58m}
37... Rxd5 {-4.51/17 2:33m (Tg4)} 38. h6 {-4.69/26 4:02m} 38... Qxh6 {
-4.55/19 3:04m} 39. Ne3 {-4.81/28 4:08m} 39... Rdb5 {-4.65/19 2:15m} 40. Nf5 {
-4.80/26 2:17m} 40... Rxf5 {-4.89/18 2:44m (Dh8)} 41. Qxf5 {-4.82/28 2:57m}
41... Rxb3 {-4.96/19 2:51m} 42. Qg4+ {-4.99/27 2:58m} 42... Kf8 {-5.15/21 3:38m
} 43. Qc8+ {-5.01/29 2:58m} 43... Kg7 {-5.13/21 2:49m} 44. Qg4+ {-5.39/29 2:59m
} 44... Qg6 {-5.35/20 2:16m} 45. Qxg6+ {-5.45/29 2:59m} 45... Kxg6 {
-5.37/20 2:52m} 46. Nd2 {-5.67/30 3:00m (Td1)} 46... Rd3 {-5.66/21 2:23m (Tb2)}
47. Re2 {-5.55/28 3:00m (Sc4)} 47... a5 {-5.92/20 2:23m (f5)} 48. Rg2+ {
-6.19/28 3:01m} 48... Kf5 {-6.01/21 2:59m} 49. Ke2 {-6.62/30 3:02m} 49... Re3+
{-6.23/20 2:59m} 50. Kd1 {-6.81/29 3:03m} 50... a4 {-6.41/20 3:00m} 51. Rf2+ {
-7.20/29 3:04m (Th2)} 51... Kg4 {-6.84/22 2:01m (Ke6)} 52. Rg2+ {-7.83/30 3:05m
} 52... Rg3 {-7.22/22 3:09m} 53. Re2 {-8.15/30 3:06m} 53... d5 {
-7.73/21 3:10m (f5)} 54. Kc2 {-9.53/29 3:07m} 54... a3 {-9.06/22 2:31m (f5)}
55. Kb1 {-10.76/32 3:09m} 55... f5 {-9.38/22 2:11m} 56. Ka2 {-13.06/31 3:10m}
56... f4 {-9.95/22 3:34m} 57. Rh2 {-18.49/30 3:13m (Te8)} 57... f3 {
-13.47/22 3:37m (c5)} 58. Nxf3 {-16.06/33 3:16m (Kxa3)} 58... Rxf3 {
-22.06/26 2:21m} 59. Rh1 {-30.76/35 3:21m} 59... Bc5 {-34.75/29 4:23m (Kf5)}
60. Rd1 {-30.97/29 1:51m} 60... Rf2+ {-M23/26 4:36m} 61. Kb3 {-M-1356/34 54s}
61... Rb2+ {-M23/26 1:00m} 62. Ka4 {-M-1368/34 52s (Kc3)} 62... a2 {-M11/21 40s
} 63. Ra1 {-M-1369/28 51s} 63... d4 {-M10/21 45s (Kf4)} 64. Rg1+ {
-M-1373/29 49s} 64... Kf3 {-M9/22 44s (Kf4)} 65. Rf1+ {-M-1374/29 48s} 65...
Ke2 {-M8/23 47s (Ke4)} 66. Ra1 {-M-1375/25 47s} 66... c6 {-M7/22 42s (d3)} 67.
Ka5 {-M-1377/27 45s} 67... Rb7 {-M6/23 45s} 68. Ka4 {-M-1378/29 44s (Txa2+)}
68... Kd3 {-M5/24 34s} 69. Rg1 {-M-1379/27 43s (Txa2)} 69... Kc3 {
-M4/26 34s (Tb1)} 70. Rg3+ {-M-1380/25 42s} 70... d3 {-M3/127 0s} 71. Rxd3+ {
-M-1381/25 41s} 71... Kxd3 {-M2/127 0s} 72. Ka5 {-M-1382/5 0s} 72... a1=Q# {
-M1/127 0s} 0-1

It certainly has someting to do with the ce value but I need help in getting an understanding of it.

Thx in advance,

Les

I have not found a plausible reason of the weird output of -M-1382 (and many more) by Bobcat 2.75 x64. OTOH, there is a simple rule of thumb for this case: ±MX = ±M(X - 1383), where +MX means a checkmate in X moves and you win the game, and -MX means a checkmate in X moves and you lose the game. It is easy to apply. Hope it helps.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

[vb4]

Hi Ajedrecista,

That atleast makes logical sense <S>. Thank you so much for this information.

Les

[mar]

Bobcat, even though UCI, doesn't seem to send score mate nn but instead sends score cp xx, I guess that explains everything.
Of course this has absolutely no impact on engine strength.
The GUI should report scores like -32762 instead of +M-xxxx, but it obviously reserves a certain range for mate scores (which is what engines do).

[hgm]

It seems the GUI assumes the mate score is 30,000. So scores above that are interpreted as negative mating distance. In particular, 32,768 would count as mate in -2768 ply = -1384 moves.