Debian 7

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sje
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Debian 7

Post by sje » Sat May 25, 2013 7:11 pm

Debian 7 was released three weeks ago and it includes the new Linux 3.2 kernel. See http://www.debian.org/ for details.

I am testing this out on one of my older machines. My first impression is that the GNOME desktop has become more like Ubuntu, and that's not to my taste. Fortunately for me, the log-in screen has the option to select Classic GNOME which helps somewhat.

My impression is that all major operating system front-ends are trending to more eye candy and more user handholding. For a someone who grew up with punch cards of the 1960s and command line Unix of the 1970s, using the modern stuff is slow and cumbersome. It's like attempting surgery while wearing thickly padded, heavy rubber gloves.

Tom Likens
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Re: Debian 7

Post by Tom Likens » Sat May 25, 2013 8:14 pm

I haven't looked at Debian 7, but does it have the option to run MATE? I've been using that since I switched to Linux Mint 13 and have been very happy. It' similar to Gnome 2.x except improved and it's just been getting better with the last few releases.

BTW, I didn't realize you also resided in New Hampshire, a nice surprise.

regards,
--tom

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michiguel
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Re: Debian 7

Post by michiguel » Sat May 25, 2013 8:16 pm

Tom Likens wrote:I haven't looked at Debian 7, but does it have the option to run MATE? I've been using that since I switched to Linux Mint 13 and have been very happy. It' similar to Gnome 2.x except improved and it's just been getting better with the last few releases.

BTW, I didn't realize you also resided in New Hampshire, a nice surprise.

regards,
--tom
When I installed Linux mint, I choose cinnamon blindly. But I wondered about MATE. Do you have an opinion about the comparison?

Miguel

casaschi
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Re: Debian 7

Post by casaschi » Sat May 25, 2013 8:39 pm

If you felt more comfortable with the old gnome 2 experience, you should try debian 7 with xfce4 instead of gnome.
You can check it first with the live cd from http://live.debian.net/

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Don
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Re: Debian 7

Post by Don » Sat May 25, 2013 9:45 pm

sje wrote:Debian 7 was released three weeks ago and it includes the new Linux 3.2 kernel. See http://www.debian.org/ for details.

I am testing this out on one of my older machines. My first impression is that the GNOME desktop has become more like Ubuntu, and that's not to my taste. Fortunately for me, the log-in screen has the option to select Classic GNOME which helps somewhat.

My impression is that all major operating system front-ends are trending to more eye candy and more user handholding. For a someone who grew up with punch cards of the 1960s and command line Unix of the 1970s, using the modern stuff is slow and cumbersome. It's like attempting surgery while wearing thickly padded, heavy rubber gloves.
I couldn't agree with you more, and that is a great analogy.

I think the issue is that the "powers that be" including Mark Shuttleworth are trying too hard to dumb down Linux in order to win over Windows users. Their mission seems to be to rule the world, one desktop at a time.

The problem with that vision is that the people most attracted to Linux don't want another eye-candy dumbed down system that even granny can use. Imagine that Lamborghini decided to cater to the mass market and started to make cheap economy cars that anyone could afford? Would the same people who love them now want one of these? I doubt it.

Anyway, I had better quit now - I feel a rant coming on :-)
Capital punishment would be more effective as a preventive measure if it were administered prior to the crime.

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lucasart
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Re: Debian 7

Post by lucasart » Sun May 26, 2013 12:57 am

I use LXDE (Lubuntu), and I'm very happy with it. It's typically the basic/efficient desktop that gets out of your way and lets you do what you want. The only little rant I have against Lubuntu is that the default selection of apps is not always what I would prefer, but that's easy to fix (install X, uninstall Y etc.)
Theory and practice sometimes clash. And when that happens, theory loses. Every single time.

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lucasart
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Re: Debian 7

Post by lucasart » Sun May 26, 2013 1:04 am

Don wrote:
sje wrote:Debian 7 was released three weeks ago and it includes the new Linux 3.2 kernel. See http://www.debian.org/ for details.

I am testing this out on one of my older machines. My first impression is that the GNOME desktop has become more like Ubuntu, and that's not to my taste. Fortunately for me, the log-in screen has the option to select Classic GNOME which helps somewhat.

My impression is that all major operating system front-ends are trending to more eye candy and more user handholding. For a someone who grew up with punch cards of the 1960s and command line Unix of the 1970s, using the modern stuff is slow and cumbersome. It's like attempting surgery while wearing thickly padded, heavy rubber gloves.
I couldn't agree with you more, and that is a great analogy.

I think the issue is that the "powers that be" including Mark Shuttleworth are trying too hard to dumb down Linux in order to win over Windows users. Their mission seems to be to rule the world, one desktop at a time.

The problem with that vision is that the people most attracted to Linux don't want another eye-candy dumbed down system that even granny can use. Imagine that Lamborghini decided to cater to the mass market and started to make cheap economy cars that anyone could afford? Would the same people who love them now want one of these? I doubt it.

Anyway, I had better quit now - I feel a rant coming on :-)
Linux comes in so many different flavors, and that's the good thing about it. So if you don't like Ubuntu, you should use something else.

While I really really really hate Unity and what Ubuntu is becoming now, I would also like to point out that what Ubuntu does is beneficial to users like you and me, indirectly. They bring more people into the community. Of course these people are morons, and neither Ubuntu nor these people are going to help us directly. But they increase the numbers. And for that reason, developpers do not neglect Linux the way they used to. Hardware manufacturers are starting to publish their specs or even distribute the source codes of their drivers, so that the Kernel folks can implement them. Some game developpers are starting to port to Linux, etc.

PS: I HATE Unity, but I like GNOME 3 Shell. You should not put them in the same sandbag. GNOME 3 shell is really the right way to evolve the desktop IMO, and it is a great simplification over GNOME 2. When it comes to desktop features, I also believe that "less is more".
Theory and practice sometimes clash. And when that happens, theory loses. Every single time.

Tom Likens
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Re: Debian 7

Post by Tom Likens » Sun May 26, 2013 1:31 am

michiguel wrote: When I installed Linux mint, I choose cinnamon blindly. But I wondered about MATE. Do you have an opinion about the comparison?

Miguel
I gave Cinnamon a try but ultimately rejected it. It seemed like the emphasis was on eye candy and on my machine it had stability problems. Mate just felt right for me. Also Mate's resource requirements are minimal and its very stable. It hasn't crashed once in all the time I've been running it (just over a year now 24/7). I think both projects are fairly active, which is a plus, although Cinnamon is the more ambitious of the two.

--tom

Modern Times
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Re: Debian 7

Post by Modern Times » Sun May 26, 2013 7:45 am

Well the beauty of Linux is that you can choose your own GUI or window manager. Lots out there to choose from. I don't particularly like the trends over recent years, but some certainly do.

zamar
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Re: Debian 7

Post by zamar » Sun May 26, 2013 8:35 am

Here is a one happy debian user. I've never seen much use for KDE or Gnome, so I still live in stoneage with old window manager, called "fluxbox". I might switch to more modern "xfce" in the future though.
Joona Kiiski

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