Debian 7

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Roman Hartmann
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Re: Debian 7

Post by Roman Hartmann » Sun May 26, 2013 10:00 am

As I'm using a rather outdated desktop as my main computer I had a similar problem. KDE and GNOME wouldn't run reasonable on this machine anymore. I tried several distributions recommended for old hardware but it didn't help much. Now I'm running Debian with LXDE as window manager and am quite happy with it.

Roman

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sje
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Re: Debian 7

Post by sje » Sun May 26, 2013 12:42 pm

I switched from Ubuntu a while back for several reasons. One is that Ubuntu dropped support for PowerPC hosts which made it impossible to update the OS on my older Macintosh computers. Another is that Ubuntu which had been working on my Acer 64 bit AMD box, dropped its support of the machine's integrated VGA output. And the third reason was the growing annoyance of eye candy.

A continuing problem with ALL Linux distributions is the lack of support for wireless network adapters, mostly due to lack of open source or specifications by hardware manufacturers. This has been a real pain for me.

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Marek Soszynski
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Re: Debian 7

Post by Marek Soszynski » Sun May 26, 2013 9:53 pm

After Gnome 3 I switched to Xfce on top of Sabayon, Fedora, then Mint. But for some time I've been using Xubuntu. I get all the advantages of using (a flavour of) the most popular distro - the largest repositories, forums, etc - together with a quick, traditional desktop.

Debian, like OpenSUSE, had trouble configuring my printers. I've ditched more distros over hardware than any other problem.
Marek Soszynski

Chan Rasjid
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Re: Debian 7

Post by Chan Rasjid » Mon May 27, 2013 4:03 am

I have been using only Linux now for quite some many years. I tried a few and finally settled on Arch Linux with LXDE. I cannot now see myself wanting to try other distro after this. It is about simplicity - installing only the things needed. I don't now get reminders about updates being available, etc.. The problem with Arch is that it only supports x86 hardware.

I would not know if the Linux kernel has weaknesses. But I could easily tell when I tried the various graphical desktop. As with most problems with men, it is about human psychology. In the particular case of the Linux desktop environment, the developers don't know how to stop!

When the Gnome 2 people finally finished their job in making Gnome 'perfect', they got into trouble - they became jobless. And joblessness is one of men's greatest problem. So they ditched all their previous achievements and started a new environment in order to be again actively employed - start Gnome 3. They could have just relaxed and go to the Mediterranean to enjoy the climate and let others start new things if they wanted to.

About xfce - I cannot see how anyone could install it and have it run! I felt sorry how people spent many man-hours working on something that never work. I found a post that xfce was good at the start but things went downhill after some time. It was all bugs when I tried it.

About KDE - it is bulky like the dinosaurs. So many choices to choice from that I don't know what to do! To hot to handle! If only they stop when it was perfected!

LXDE - simple. Exactly what I need.

Maybe Linux has an innate weakness - it is open source and free!

Best Regards,
Rasjid.
Don't believe when you're told "There's no free lunch!" There is Linux.

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sje
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Slow but sure

Post by sje » Tue May 28, 2013 9:15 pm

I'm slowly making my way through porting Debian 7.0.0 to my Linux machines.

One problem so far is the need to manually adjust the usually untouched network configuration file as for some reason using the GUI isn't fully working. This might not be necessary if the default DHCP is used; I prefer fixed IP addresses.

Also, an Apple afp link will go bad after a few minutes of activity. But ssh and rsync work fine.

Success at last with getting the wireless working.

Networking has always been Linux's red-headed step-child.

Tom Likens
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Re: Slow but sure

Post by Tom Likens » Wed May 29, 2013 1:12 am

sje wrote:I'm slowly making my way through porting Debian 7.0.0 to my Linux machines.

One problem so far is the need to manually adjust the usually untouched network configuration file as for some reason using the GUI isn't fully working. This might not be necessary if the default DHCP is used; I prefer fixed IP addresses.

Also, an Apple afp link will go bad after a few minutes of activity. But ssh and rsync work fine.

Success at last with getting the wireless working.

Networking has always been Linux's red-headed step-child.
"Wireless" networking has always been the red-headed step-child. I've always found wired ethernet to work flawlessly on Linux.

jdart
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Re: Slow but sure

Post by jdart » Wed May 29, 2013 2:10 am

Frequently you will have to update the network drivers from the hardware vendor. In my experience most distros won't necessarily have the right drivers out of the box.

--Jon

Volker Pittlik
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Re: Debian 7

Post by Volker Pittlik » Wed May 29, 2013 2:25 am

Roman Hartmann wrote:... Now I'm running Debian with LXDE as window manager and am quite happy with it.

Roman
I use the same setup here on my Linux machines. LXDE is fine for me too.

Volker

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mhull
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Re: Debian 7

Post by mhull » Wed May 29, 2013 7:33 am

sje wrote:Debian 7 was released three weeks ago and it includes the new Linux 3.2 kernel. See http://www.debian.org/ for details.

I am testing this out on one of my older machines. My first impression is that the GNOME desktop has become more like Ubuntu, and that's not to my taste. Fortunately for me, the log-in screen has the option to select Classic GNOME which helps somewhat.

My impression is that all major operating system front-ends are trending to more eye candy and more user handholding. For a someone who grew up with punch cards of the 1960s and command line Unix of the 1970s, using the modern stuff is slow and cumbersome. It's like attempting surgery while wearing thickly padded, heavy rubber gloves.
(I'm still coding JCL under TSO.)

Lubuntu is good for not-so-fast hardware. It's snappy on my HP Netbook 1000 mini. My niece's 1.6 Ghz single core laptop was groaning under the weight of Windows 7. But it absolutely screams with Lubuntu.

For minimalists, the DSL (Damn Small Linux) distribution has been revived. The entire distro fits in 50 megs of RAM. It's wicked fast even on ancient hardware (e.g. 800 Mhz). Some people are running it just fine on 486s.
Matthew Hull

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Don
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Re: Debian 7

Post by Don » Wed May 29, 2013 1:05 pm

mhull wrote:
sje wrote:Debian 7 was released three weeks ago and it includes the new Linux 3.2 kernel. See http://www.debian.org/ for details.

I am testing this out on one of my older machines. My first impression is that the GNOME desktop has become more like Ubuntu, and that's not to my taste. Fortunately for me, the log-in screen has the option to select Classic GNOME which helps somewhat.

My impression is that all major operating system front-ends are trending to more eye candy and more user handholding. For a someone who grew up with punch cards of the 1960s and command line Unix of the 1970s, using the modern stuff is slow and cumbersome. It's like attempting surgery while wearing thickly padded, heavy rubber gloves.
(I'm still coding JCL under TSO.)

Lubuntu is good for not-so-fast hardware. It's snappy on my HP Netbook 1000 mini. My niece's 1.6 Ghz single core laptop was groaning under the weight of Windows 7. But it absolutely screams with Lubuntu.

For minimalists, the DSL (Damn Small Linux) distribution has been revived. The entire distro fits in 50 megs of RAM. It's wicked fast even on ancient hardware (e.g. 800 Mhz). Some people are running it just fine on 486s.
I have not looked into distributions in a long time and have more or less settled on Ubuntu or Mint. The OS is the thing that gets in the way of actual work so I don't specialize in learning and installing them as it would be a major distraction. I just want to install and forget and not be hassled.

Having said that, a necessary evil is to choose something that works for you and to have the right tools. I did read about about DSL many times in the past and even played with a thumb drive distribution of it once. It's too minimalistic for me. But I wouldn't mind finding something that is a good compromise or fills the gap between something like DSL and these super heavy-weight distributions.

I think the primary issue is that once Operating Systems BECOME the primary APPLICATION, everything changed. In the country I live in people buy trucks as personal vehicles, they weight several thousand pounds. Several thousand pounds to carry a single 160 pound man! Operating systems have become like large trucks in this way with massive support for doing something as simple as checking email.

The early Unix systems were about right in my opinion. Maybe I am a dinosaur in this regard, but they were like super DOS machines, supporting multi-tasking and multi-user without needing gigabytes of code and utilities to do so.

I don't have a problem with windowing systems, that has made it quite nice since I typically have many things open on my display. But it just keeps getting heavier and heavier without end. You KNOW something is wrong if you cannot even run the operating system unless you have massive hardware but the operating system should GET OUT OF THE WAY so that you can run applications.
Capital punishment would be more effective as a preventive measure if it were administered prior to the crime.

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