The Perils of missing sub-promotion

Discussion of chess software programming and technical issues.

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xsadar
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Re: Is it worth it to search them?

Post by xsadar »

xsadar wrote:Searching bishop and rook promotions however doesn't seem necessary to me most of the time, but would be useful if a queen promotion returns a draw score. It would be trivial to generate them only in that case. Do you know of any other case where I would need to search them?
Uri Blass wrote:There was a question to find a position with minimal number of pieces when underpromotion to bishop is the only drawing move

[D]r6K/6PP/4k1q1/8/8/8/8/8 w - - 0 1
Looks like you answered my (and Gerd's) question, although unintentionally. Thanks Uri.
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xsadar
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Re: Is it worth it to search them?

Post by xsadar »

nczempin wrote:Knight promotions are even rarer, after all I started this thread because it so rarely happens in a real game (I'm not sure I agree with hgm's 1 %, actually I would think intuitively that it comes up not one, but two orders of magnitude less frequently---but I haven't looked through all Eden's games to check).
I just found this on Wikipedia's underpromotion article.
In the 2006 ChessBase database of 3,200,000 games, the breakdown of games in which promotions occur (counting games in which multiple promotions of the same type by the same player occur only once) is approximately:

* queen - 96.9%
* knight - 1.8%
* rook - 1.1%
* bishop - 0.2%

This suggests approximately 3% of all promotions are underpromotions. The frequency of truly significant underpromotions is, however, less than this.
Since these are statistics just for games where promotion occurs, I looked up Promotion in Wikipedia and found this:
In the 2006 ChessBase database of 3,200,000 games (largely grandmaster- and master-level), about 1.5% of the games contain a promotion.
So the percentage of all games in the database that would contain underpromotion would be approximately 0.046%.

So HGM's 1% does indeed sound quite high compared to these statistics if he's referring to total games played, which is how his comment reads. But perhaps he really meant 1% of promotions rather than 1% of games. At any rate, it seems your intuition here was pretty accurate in this case. But I'm still left wondering how many of those 3.1% of promotions really need to be underpromotions, and how many are just people underpromoting because they can. But if I had to guess I guess I'd say that a fair amount of the knight promotions are legitimate, but that most of the rook promotions are not.
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hgm
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Re: Is it worth it to search them?

Post by hgm »

Engines that play until mate win almost every game through promotion. Promotion is the reason that most theoretically lost positions (where Humans resign) are lost in the first place. With non-promoting Pawns they would be drawn as hell...

Also the losing side is responsible for many promotions. If it sees it si going to be stripped bare no matter wat, it usually starts running with a Pawn. The winning engine, being busy gobbling up other Pawns, very often takes the running one only when it reaches the promotion square. And as it is going to lose the piece on the next move, it does't matter what it promotes to. Many engines prefer a Knight in that case.
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xsadar
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Re: Is it worth it to search them?

Post by xsadar »

hgm wrote:Engines that play until mate win almost every game through promotion. Promotion is the reason that most theoretically lost positions (where Humans resign) are lost in the first place. With non-promoting Pawns they would be drawn as hell...

Also the losing side is responsible for many promotions. If it sees it si going to be stripped bare no matter wat, it usually starts running with a Pawn. The winning engine, being busy gobbling up other Pawns, very often takes the running one only when it reaches the promotion square. And as it is going to lose the piece on the next move, it does't matter what it promotes to. Many engines prefer a Knight in that case.
Yes, I meant to put forward the question of how many of those 98.5% of games would have resulted in promotions if not for resignation. Some how I omitted that question though. I would venture to say that games with engines as well as games with non-master level players see more promotions than games played by grandmasters and masters. How much though, I don't know.